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Old 10-29-2017, 05:13 PM   #1
Huntman3
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An arguement that counters Ramsey

http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Oli...02&sk=7616359D
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Old 10-29-2017, 06:45 PM   #2
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I don't know enough to argue with the results of the survey.....but...
.
The pair tracked 839 adults age 50 and older for four years to measure the changes.

That is a pretty short time period to gain a full understanding of the final results.

"50 and older" is also a massive section of a population. Are we talking 50s; 60s; 70's ?????
I'll await more studies and more data.
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Old 10-29-2017, 07:21 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by richg99 View Post
I don't know enough to argue with the results of the survey.....but...
.
The pair tracked 839 adults age 50 and older for four years to measure the changes.

That is a pretty short time period to gain a full understanding of the final results.

"50 and older" is also a massive section of a population. Are we talking 50s; 60s; 70's ?????
I'll await more studies and more data.
Understood - however I have had/used debt for 38 years and am in a very good financial position for retirement. I think the point of the article is that there is not just one way to have a comfortable retirement - like you, I have done financial planning for many years. There is no "one size fits all" - any advisor like Ramsey who promotes just one concept helps some folks but hurts others
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:35 PM   #4
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Nobody is forcing anyone to follow his plan. He doesn't force anyone to attach their mortgage in a debt snowball. He suggests a 15 year mortgage.

I think most people in his program are in the debt snowball for 7 years or less. If they are in that long it usually includes their house. It's not a life long distraction from retirement.

If you asked 800+ people that did the plan I think the numbers would be skewed compared to the stated ones. He teaches to get out of consumer debt first (short term) and then build wealth. What's so absurd about that?

He can't possibly fine tune everyone's finances for them. I don't know his customer base but we both know it's large. Sure he makes money off of his info, I don't see why he shouldn't. Just like anything in life, there is enough free information about his content out there to decide if this is the financial path you want to take, optional.

Just like the car statement from previously. If you owned a cheaper car that didn't have a note then you could save or give that money. Yet you choose to have a newer nicer vehicle. Is that the answer for everyone? No.

Last edited by JFolm; 10-29-2017 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:53 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JFolm View Post
Nobody is forcing anyone to follow his plan. He doesn't force anyone to attach their mortgage in a debt snowball. He suggests a 15 year mortgage.

I think most people in his program are in the debt snowball for 7 years or less. If they are in that long it usually includes their house. It's not a life long distraction from retirement.

If you asked 800+ people that did the plan I think the numbers would be skewed compared to the stated ones. He teaches to get out of consumer debt first (short term) and then build wealth. What's so absurd about that?

He can't possibly fine tune everyone's finances for them. I don't know his customer base but we both know it's large. Sure he makes money off of his info, I don't see why he shouldn't. Just like anything in life, there is enough free information about his content out there to decide if this is the financial path you want to take, optional.

Just like the car statement from previously. If you owned a cheaper car that didn't have a note then you could save or give that money. Yet you choose to have a newer nicer vehicle. Is that the answer for everyone? No.
I have never said there is one answer for everyone. That, in fact, is my entire point. Each and every person's situation is different - so providing generalized advice can be dangerous - there is good debt and bad debt. If a person cannot handle their finances then going to a professional for individualized advice makes sense compared to a radio talk show host IMO.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:42 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Huntman3 View Post
I have never said there is one answer for everyone. That, in fact, is my entire point. Each and every person's situation is different - so providing generalized advice can be dangerous - there is good debt and bad debt. If a person cannot handle their finances then going to a professional for individualized advice makes sense compared to a radio talk show host IMO.
I agree that a professional would make more sense. He in fact endorces professionals to use. I don't follow his steps 100% but I do believe in his values. We will have to agree to disagree on some things.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:13 PM   #7
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The real answer is going to be an individual one. Gordon's methods work very well for some people but isn't the smartest approach for others.

I think some things are a no brainer, like maxing out your 401K, but others will depend on you. I have a finance concentrated MBA and do well in the market, so it makes sense for me to carry a $300K mortgage at 3.5% when I make 10%+ in the market on average years and 25%+ on years like this year. Debt can get you ahead quicker if you truly understand your total financial picture but if you can't, following Gordon's advice probably isn't a bad thing.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:21 PM   #8
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Gordon's methods work very well for some people but isn't the smartest approach for others.
Gordon Ramsay is the TV chef....Dave Ramsey is the personal finance guy



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Old 10-30-2017, 04:43 PM   #9
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A perfect example on his radio show today. Lady calls in - she and her husband are in the late 40s and asking if they have enough to retire. Ramsey ask how much they have total to live off of and she says a million. He tells her that if it is invested and if they earn 10%, then they can take the earnings ($100,000 per year) and live a good retirement from then on.

What an absurd financial answer! For starters at their ages there is a high probability one or both of them will live another 40-50 years. He made no mention of the impact of inflation - even at 2-3% per year inflation the $100,000 will have much less purchasing power over that many years. That alone will kill their retirement based on the advice he gave.

He later gave them the math again and said to use 8 or 10% earnings per year on their investments. The only way to average that percentage over time is to be totally invested in stocks - and that is very risky for anyone during retirement (remember 2008-2009 anyone?). He constantly tells people to factor very high investment returns to determine their retirement.

What if during their first year or two of retirement their investments lost 8-10% each year but they withdrew $100,000 anyway? They will have dug a hole they most likely can not recover from.

My entire point is this - not only will this couple who called in make retirement decisions based off of his flawed advice, many others listening may do the same. As I have stated before - he knows just enough about some things to be dangerous
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:23 AM   #10
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[QUOTE=al_carl;22036466]Gordon Ramsay is the TV chef....Dave Ramsey is the personal finance guy

You call tell I don't follow him and haven't listened to him in a very long time!!!!
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