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Old 10-31-2017, 06:30 PM   #11
older 37
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Originally Posted by Huntman3 View Post
Understood - however I have had/used debt for 38 years and am in a very good financial position for retirement. I think the point of the article is that there is not just one way to have a comfortable retirement - like you, I have done financial planning for many years. There is no "one size fits all" - any advisor like Ramsey who promotes just one concept helps some folks but hurts others
I think everyone has had debt but you gloss over the fact that most American grown ups can't tell the difference between good debt or bad debt when it comes to building for retirement.$10,000 or more in good debt, no sweat. the same in bad debt, you are drowning. So, until more people are smarter with their money,debt is generally bad. One difference between poor people and well to do people is their understanding of what money is. To a poor person it's something he gets by working and pays his bills with. To the successful people it's a TOOL.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:05 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by older 37 View Post
I think everyone has had debt but you gloss over the fact that most American grown ups can't tell the difference between good debt or bad debt when it comes to building for retirement.$10,000 or more in good debt, no sweat. the same in bad debt, you are drowning. So, until more people are smarter with their money,debt is generally bad. One difference between poor people and well to do people is their understanding of what money is. To a poor person it's something he gets by working and pays his bills with. To the successful people it's a TOOL.

You make a valid point - believe me I understand that many folks cannot handle their finances (much less debt). I have always believed (and taught my children and grandchildren) that each of us is a product of our decisions - especially financially. So any person - no matter what their job or income - has the ability to learn about good and bad debt. It takes some effort on their part. I have never said Ramsey's preaching of eliminating debt was bad for some - just saying that preaching it is bad for everyone is not accurate

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Old 11-01-2017, 06:12 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Huntman3 View Post
A perfect example on his radio show today. Lady calls in - she and her husband are in the late 40s and asking if they have enough to retire. Ramsey ask how much they have total to live off of and she says a million. He tells her that if it is invested and if they earn 10%, then they can take the earnings ($100,000 per year) and live a good retirement from then on.

What an absurd financial answer! For starters at their ages there is a high probability one or both of them will live another 40-50 years. He made no mention of the impact of inflation - even at 2-3% per year inflation the $100,000 will have much less purchasing power over that many years. That alone will kill their retirement based on the advice he gave.

He later gave them the math again and said to use 8 or 10% earnings per year on their investments. The only way to average that percentage over time is to be totally invested in stocks - and that is very risky for anyone during retirement (remember 2008-2009 anyone?). He constantly tells people to factor very high investment returns to determine their retirement.

What if during their first year or two of retirement their investments lost 8-10% each year but they withdrew $100,000 anyway? They will have dug a hole they most likely can not recover from.

My entire point is this - not only will this couple who called in make retirement decisions based off of his flawed advice, many others listening may do the same. As I have stated before - he knows just enough about some things to be dangerous
I just ran across this article that not only is excellent but discusses exactly what I was referring to above.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/estim...163408441.html
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Huntman3 View Post
A perfect example on his radio show today. Lady calls in - she and her husband are in the late 40s and asking if they have enough to retire.
Wow, I can't imagine how it must be to dislike someone so much that you have to listen to them every day to try and prove them wrong. I've got better things to do with my time.

Problem is, you listen just enough to be wrong yourself. I'm actually not sure if you misunderstood or if you are being deliberately misleading. I pulled up the podcast on the way in to work this morning and listened to the call.

The lady and her husband were both 59 and would be retiring in a year or 2. The husband wanted to know if they would be OK in retirement. Dave's short answer was yes. Maybe that's where you stopped. But they went on for quite a while and pretty much said exactly what that article you linked above said. Take some time and map out what your retirement will look like. Where you would like to go, what you plan to spend, how you plan to live...so that you don't eat into your nest egg.

I agree with you in that he didn't mention inflation. He used to base everything on 12% return and living off 8% so that 4% continues to increase the fund and will cover inflation. Later in the call he did mention 8%, 10%, 12% but just as something to expect, not as planning.

It's been a long time since I've listened to him live so maybe you can help me out with this one. Doesn't he have a disclaimer that plays at the top or bottom of the hour that basically says "This is generalized advice and you should seek a professional opinion for your specific circumstances."? It seems to me that's been your main complaint every time you post about him.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:03 AM   #15
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LOL, you've made 34 posts since you joined about a month ago.

Fully half of them have been about Dave Ramsey.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:56 AM   #16
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lol, never knew "hey don't spend more than you make, and here are a few tools to help protect you from yourself" would be so controversial.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al_carl View Post
Wow, I can't imagine how it must be to dislike someone so much that you have to listen to them every day to try and prove them wrong. I've got better things to do with my time.

Problem is, you listen just enough to be wrong yourself. I'm actually not sure if you misunderstood or if you are being deliberately misleading. I pulled up the podcast on the way in to work this morning and listened to the call.

The lady and her husband were both 59 and would be retiring in a year or 2. The husband wanted to know if they would be OK in retirement. Dave's short answer was yes. Maybe that's where you stopped. But they went on for quite a while and pretty much said exactly what that article you linked above said. Take some time and map out what your retirement will look like. Where you would like to go, what you plan to spend, how you plan to live...so that you don't eat into your nest egg.

I agree with you in that he didn't mention inflation. He used to base everything on 12% return and living off 8% so that 4% continues to increase the fund and will cover inflation. Later in the call he did mention 8%, 10%, 12% but just as something to expect, not as planning.

It's been a long time since I've listened to him live so maybe you can help me out with this one. Doesn't he have a disclaimer that plays at the top or bottom of the hour that basically says "This is generalized advice and you should seek a professional opinion for your specific circumstances."? It seems to me that's been your main complaint every time you post about him.
never said I listen to him everyday. He failed to include one of the most important aspects of retirement planning - inflation. He uses assume rates of returns that are way too aggressive. Other than that it was great advice

As stated before, I am also not a fan of him calling people stupid and full of cow manure. Carry on
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:52 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by al_carl View Post
LOL, you've made 34 posts since you joined about a month ago.

Fully half of them have been about Dave Ramsey.
you are right - nobody reads this section so it is a waste of time
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:53 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Huntman3 View Post
never said I listen to him everyday. He failed to include one of the most important aspects of retirement planning - inflation. He uses assume rates of returns that are way too aggressive. Other than that it was great advice

As stated before, I am also not a fan of him calling people stupid and full of cow manure. Carry on
What rate of return would you suggest to someone that is looking to do long term planning?
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Old 11-01-2017, 10:08 AM   #20
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I moved my money around yesterday, couldn't stand it any longer. When she asked what kind of return I was expecting I told her I would be ecstatic with a 4% guarantee for life. I can't imagine planning on anything much more than that in this day and age.....
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