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2 part knot question surgeons knot/tackle knot

4K views 30 replies 9 participants last post by  mad marlin 
#1 ·
Can you tie a triple surgeons knot in braid and keep the strength of the line? Also I have put topshots on a couple of my reels and was wondering which knot would be the best to tie jigs and swivels on with. Also I have seen where a loop to a swivel can be done by wrapping the swivel through itself somehow. I really dont know what it is called. Thanks RD
 
#4 ·
What a loaded question. Alot of west coasters spend days on this subject. On braided line you can certainly use the offshore swivel knot or the new uni with a cats' paw. You want two strands through the swivel for strentgh. The surgeons knot x3 isn't the strongest and not used on large gear. All this depends on what size your tackling. I use alot of double uni or double improved clinch knot. Alot of friends swear by the trilene knot.
Geoff Wilson has a great book on knots. Hope this helps.
 
#7 ·
A 3-7 turn Surgeons knot will work for a loop to loop connection but a spliced eye or a bimini twist is stronger. I try to use a spliced eye (100% connection) even if I'm using solid braid. I will add a short section of hollow to it. Go here for instructions:

http://www.sportfishermen.com/board/f172/hollow-spectra-i-solid-hollow-splices-382776.html

Lots of good info here:

http://streamlineleaders.com/links/

BTW, BHPTackle.com will sell shorter lenghts of hollow core spectra so you don't have to buy a whole spool
 
#8 · (Edited)
Why not just spend a few more seconds and tie a good Bimini..
With braid I would only tie a minimum 6 turn surgeon and only if I was in a hurry for some reason.

Otherwise I tie a good 24 turn Bimini with maybe even a drop of zap/gorilla.

I love tying good knots, I figure its part of me bein a good fisherman...:wink:

Good luck with what ever knot you end up usin and give us a report on it...

Hog
 
#9 ·
Why not just spend a few more seconds and tie a good Bimini..
With braid I would only tie a minimum 6 turn surgeon and only if I was in a hurry for some reason.

Otherwise I tie a good 24 turn Bimini with maybe even a drop of zap/gorilla.

I love tying good knots, I figure its part of me bein a good fisherman...:wink:

Good luck with what ever knot you end up usin and give us a report on it...

Hog
a properly tied bimini is a stronger knot but the surgeons is slimmer and much easier and quicker and I've never learned how to tie a bimini. I only use a loop to loop on my tuna rigs which have 80 and 100lb braid with a topshot of 60 or 80lb flouro. the terminal knot is the weakest link so the slight weakening of the braid at the loop is a non issue.

that's just my way of doing it. maybe one day soon when I'm day dreaming about blue water I'll learn how to tie a bimini!:)
 
#12 ·
jigging or popping ( casting )

if you,re & night and need a quick knot or you,ve brake ur braid to ur leader Ill use a reverse albright or crazy alberto , no name knot.
If you,re popping ill go to a bimini twist for my loop to loop leader. However for jigging I,ve always tie a PR knot or a mid knot , this knots are 100% tested , they have to be pre tied before your trip thought. you can do them on the boat but its challenging.

check this link & also lots of good videos of it @ youtube.
http://www.jigsdirect.com/eMerchantPro/pc/fishing_knots.asp
 
#14 · (Edited)
if you,re & night and need a quick knot or you,ve brake ur braid to ur leader Ill use a reverse albright or crazy alberto , no name knot.
If you,re popping ill go to a bimini twist for my loop to loop leader. However for jigging I,ve always tie a PR knot or a mid knot , this knots are 100% tested , they have to be pre tied before your trip thought. you can do them on the boat but its challenging.

check this link & also lots of good videos of it @ youtube.
http://www.jigsdirect.com/eMerchantPro/pc/fishing_knots.asp
Good Post Mad Marlin,

Reverse Albright, Bimini, PR and Mid Knot... I Like'm all. In my opinion they are all easy to tie, just takes a minute longer maybe.. The mid knot takes the longest of the above mentioned. I save tying them off shore while we are running between spots. (until I started pre tying PR's as I'll mention below) Not much Pizzzs me off fish'n more than havin a knot come untied. The last one was about a year ago, and it didnt come untied, it got abrasived and the mono split. (reverse albright/worm) Good knot, but if abrased in any way due to the wrap tensions, retie.

I have learned this. ALWAYS retie old knots for a new trip. Simply running them thru the guides casting or reelin 100 times a day will wear on the knot. Better to be safe than sorry...

I need to make a post of what Ive started do'n for a pre trip in regards to the PR.

Awe heck, this is good a place/time as any...

To make it plain and simple... I pre make the PR wrapped leaders and roll several of them up in coils... ready for quick attachment...

Its simply this....
1. you have the floro/mono size of your choice
2. the floro/mono has tied to it with a PR knot from Braid. I dont like using a single strand PR, I double the braid thru the bobbin of if its hollow core, I pull it back thru itself with a piece of tight bent steel leader to make a double strong single strand.

3. from there a few inchs away is the loop for the loop to loop connection. At home while your watching a boring movie/TV show, tie you several up and place in a sandwich baggie.

Your set for quick reties..

In the pictures below, you will see this, one is tied with regular 80ish pound braid I just pulled off the rod and the other (blue) is 200# hollow core I had in my drawer I sometimes use for mak'in light line assist hooks....
Gesture Grey Font Pattern Circle


This is one Ive already used and cut off to use again..
Grey Asphalt Font Automotive design Road surface


Yall know how it is, you get an invite to go on someone elses boat, your try and limit your self to 2 rods, but know you need more so you wont have to re rig all the time when you try for different species. Well, Lets say you have this rig on for jigg'n and all of a sudden a big ole ling comes by and you know you need to quickly cut everything off and simply tie a hook on it for a lively or some dead bait or for some special ling lure. to take off this PR knot leader, all you have to do is cut one side of the bimini close to the loop to loop and pull it thru. You have not messed up in anyway your special leader, you set it aside for later.. Plus you catch the ling of course :wink:....

Works good... One note tho. Even tho, the PR is wound real-real tight, I use a torch lighter and blunt the end and put a drop of zap/gorilla on that part. And lets face it, a Mid is nothing more than a hand tied PR and blunting the end and the drop of zap/gorilla glue in my opinion is a must.

Great knots tho for going thru guides and in strenght... I aint had one come unbutton'd yet (crossing my fingers)

And Bimini's.... Theres some good easy to learn youtubes out there...
Basically
1. Double arms lenght loop in the line
2. Twist it as much as you want. I like 24 turns... I think it gets brittle if ya go 50 or so
3. put the loop part over something
4. on the tag end, hold the main line with your little finger-ring finger and FU finger and hold the tail end at a 90 degree angle away from the main line with your pointing finger and thumb. I like to hold the tail end about a foot from the end
5. take your other hand and place it between the two braids at the loop thats secured off.
6. pull that finger thats between the braids up toward your hand holding the main line.
7 When its starts to squish down. I grab the tail with my loop hand and as i bring up the loop hand tighter, I let the tag end wrap back over the tight coils.
8. When its all the way over all the coils, I pinch off the overlap and I do a half hitch on one side of the loop line and then a half hitch on the other side and then another half hitch over them both.
9... I then tie a 12 wrap unit with the tag end. You can lube and work down snug. I do mine a bit more complicated than just snuggin the unit. instead of snuggin down the unit, I wrap the uni and then simply wrap the loop part of the uni over itself and when finish, I pull the tag and its a super smooth way to tie it off. That part is probably easier to understand if I would make a youtube or find a youtube of it.. Just practice. I can usually tie one in less than a minute.... and if I was in a race, maybe 30 seconds...haha

heres a basic drawing of what I just said except for the last part


I dont think the way I tied it is the best way, but, I like how it comes out...

If after all this long wordy reply (I get long winded sometimes) I had one thing to suggest to yall, it would be this. Get in the habit of torch blunting the ends and putting a drop of superglue, I like gorilla the best simply because the way the screw on top is made it keeps the hole open all the time. Braid is slow slick sometimes and especially if trying to tie to hard-slick-florocarbon leader that the super glue will keep things from slipping. JMO...

Sorry to be so long and wordy... Not trying to be a know-it-all, because Im not, I just like to talk knots... :spineyes:
 
#13 ·
Check out the current issue of sportfishing magazine. There is an excellent article on braid to mono connections. They used the IGFA's line tester to test the breaking point of all the "great" knots and the Bristol and Improved Bristol knots dominated. It also busted a lot of peoples bubbles when they proved that a lot of these "100% knots" are far, far from it. It also proved a feeling that I've always had that the uni-uni is a low percentage knot.
 
#15 · (Edited)
As I thought sport fishing magazine testing was far from accurate # & not even close to the test of 100% proven tested knots.
The only knot that was tested to be a 100% was the FG knot , wonder why no PR knot wasn't tested or mid knot to name a few.
if you,re a person that goes by seeing its believing check this topic on another site , if you like reading biased real time testing. .

http://www.360tuna.com/forum/f3/braid-mono-braid-flouro-knot-testing-11850/
 
#19 ·
Yea, I was kinda wondering about that too when I read that mag article in SFM. On the other site, they get wound up about knots sometimes.... Ive done some PM'n back and forth over there with Capt Dom about his recs about knots since his clients are after those huge blue fins almost daily...

This is what he wrote me as how he likes it...

Bimini in the mainline, wind on of mono or floro in 80-130# for casting. leader s I use are 9-11 feet in total length, with about 8-12 inches of the leader into the hollow core.

Wow, I would love to have the opportunity to have one of them monsters bite my line
 
#20 ·
Main line braid from the reel I simply tie a 24 turn bimini..... and then loop to loop that to my little pre made PR tied leaders.....

Man, I promise you its quick and easy to put on a new leader that way hav'n'm pre tied..

The only splicing I do is with the braid hollow core Im using most of the time that I use to PR to the floro.........
 
#22 ·
you guys are great. I really dont understand everything you said but I did pick up on some of it. Sooooooooo if I need a loop on my mainline Hog you are suggesting a bimini. I think I have that one down. I have a few windons So I think I am good with the leader stuff. MM I tried the mid knot with limited success. I had a problem when I tested it the floro would sometimes pull out of the braid. I dont know if I didnt wrap the braid tight enought or what. The last one I tied worked I think. Does it matter which end you pull when you are making sure it holds? Also when you tighten the knot up do you pull bothe ends of the braid(tag and mainline) or just the mainline. Thanks guys.
 
#28 ·
Lot's of knot talk here. I got tired of knots. At one point, my 50s had 7 connections. I had my 50s spooled with braid, had a short 100ft top shot, then a wind-on.

1) Bimini in the main line
2) Loop to loop mainline to top-shot
3) Chinese finger cuff in top-shot
4) Chinese finger cuff in other end of top-shot
5) Loop to loop top-shot to wind-on
6) Chinese finger cuff on wind on
7) Crimp to costloc (snap swivel).

Done with all that.

Brandon
 
#30 ·
I figure those were the best I could do, but never had 100% confidence. Just too much going on. I am in the middle of simplifying things now.

Jigging and popping, straight braid (65 or 80) with a Tony Pena knot to 60-80 mono (usually pretty short, 10-20ft).

The Tony Pena knot is a really good knot for braid to mono in my experience.

Brandon
 
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