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Old 06-30-2020, 10:42 PM   #21
Toby_Corgi
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Originally Posted by Liv'n_the_dream View Post
I agree about not believing several countries reported numbers.

I also don’t think it’s fair to compare us to some countries in the way behave socially. Americans have always had an independent streak and a healthy distrust of govt so aren’t as likely to follow govts advice. Then factor in that the govt is typically full of BS on BOTH sides and we get what we got. Just a fiasco all around.


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I've had the same thought about our independent streak really hurting us with this. I've spent a lot of time in various parts of Asia and those people are very compliant to government orders. I'm not saying I'd want that here in most cases, but it's how they've been conditioned in Asia with more authoritarian governments. As a result, they've really been able to control the spread much better. Around here, I frequently see obviously foolish actions when I get out and just shake my head. It's no wonder case numbers are spiking. Fortunately, it's the younger less vulnerable crowd making most of the foolish moves (e.g., standing in lines to get in bars shoulder-to-shoulder with no masks) so the number of deaths has not spiked, at least not yet. I do worry that the spike among younger people will find its way to older more vulnerable people through their workplaces like senior housing, as well as their extended families, etc. The steps needed to be relatively safe and keep this under control are not that hard, but apparently for some people it's just asking too much.
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:18 PM   #22
pocjetty
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Originally Posted by Toby_Corgi View Post
I've had the same thought about our independent streak really hurting us with this. I've spent a lot of time in various parts of Asia and those people are very compliant to government orders. I'm not saying I'd want that here in most cases, but it's how they've been conditioned in Asia with more authoritarian governments. As a result, they've really been able to control the spread much better. Around here, I frequently see obviously foolish actions when I get out and just shake my head. It's no wonder case numbers are spiking. Fortunately, it's the younger less vulnerable crowd making most of the foolish moves (e.g., standing in lines to get in bars shoulder-to-shoulder with no masks) so the number of deaths has not spiked, at least not yet. I do worry that the spike among younger people will find its way to older more vulnerable people through their workplaces like senior housing, as well as their extended families, etc. The steps needed to be relatively safe and keep this under control are not that hard, but apparently for some people it's just asking too much.

I had dinner with a CEO of a big company, must be 18 or 20 years ago. The conversation turned to the culture of individuality in this country and the (positive) effect it has had on our creativity/innovation, and the resulting success we had for so long. He was worried even then that our schools and popular culture were beating that individuality out of us - out of our youth. There was a belief among many of his colleagues that when we lose that, we will lose that intangible thing that made us excel in the world.

I agreed with him then, and even more so now. But our bent toward individualism isn't completely gone, it has just been turned into a tendency to anarchy. The idea that "no one can tell me what to do". Society is based on the idea that everyone gives up something so that we can all play together nicely.

Maybe it's true that our greatest strength can also be our greatest weakness.
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:59 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by pocjetty View Post
I had dinner with a CEO of a big company, must be 18 or 20 years ago. The conversation turned to the culture of individuality in this country and the (positive) effect it has had on our creativity/innovation, and the resulting success we had for so long. He was worried even then that our schools and popular culture were beating that individuality out of us - out of our youth. There was a belief among many of his colleagues that when we lose that, we will lose that intangible thing that made us excel in the world.

I agreed with him then, and even more so now. But our bent toward individualism isn't completely gone, it has just been turned into a tendency to anarchy. The idea that "no one can tell me what to do". Society is based on the idea that everyone gives up something so that we can all play together nicely.

Maybe it's true that our greatest strength can also be our greatest weakness.
I think there's a lot of truth to that. I love the American independent streak, but it's frustrating at times like these when so many people fail to see the value of working toward a common goal. I am concerned that we're having such a hard time following simple protocols to slow the spread. It does not bode well for us as a country in the event something even more sinister and deadly comes our way--and it eventually will.
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