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Old 07-07-2004, 04:18 PM   #11
Ernest
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Love this line: "Government handouts (and believe me, 80% tariffs on your competitors is a handout) make comapanies, and people for that matter, lazy and takes away any real need to excel. In the long run, it is not good for the country..."

Amen. So few people seem to understand that a tarriff is merely a comsuption tax and domestic producer subsidy. If more people could grasp this concept, it would dramitically change our economy for the better, in my estimation.

Of course, there is always the gloom and doom crowd who are still struggling with the lessons of the 1930's.
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Old 07-07-2004, 05:21 PM   #12
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IMHO tarriffs and subsidies should only be used to prevent industries essential to national security or preserving the economy from going under or heading overseas. Unfortunately, due to politics, our government uses subsidies and tarriffs to ensure profitability and to buy votes. The shrimping industry is hardly essential to national security, but commercial fishing carries political clout that is very disproportionate to its size in our economy or it's contribution to the nation. The farm industry abuses subsidy programs through their political clout also, but at least you can make the argument that they are "essential". If commercial fishing disappeared all together, people might miss eating seafood, but the country's economy or security would not be threatened.
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Old 07-07-2004, 11:00 PM   #13
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The problem is not "harvesting" our resources, it's overharvesting our resources and lack of control/conservation. It all gets down to money and jobs for this issue with foreign countries.

As has been said, the wage structure in the US is one of the biggest overheads that US corporations have. Foreign countries are doing it much cheaper like China and India. 10 or 15 years ago, when our steel industry was withering or almost gone and people were losing jobs to computers, economists said that the industry in the US was shifting to more of a service based business. Well, we have now entered another cycle in the last couple years, even the service business is going overseas. India is rapidly becoming the customer service end of companies in the US.

Everytime I place a call to support for my Direcway Satellite internet service, someone in India answers. If this trend of service jobs going overseas continues, I predict that the standard of living of middle class America is going to decline significantly. I'm guessing that in 20 years, things will look a lot worse then they do now in terms of jobs. Every subdivision my son has bought a house in here has been built by Mexicans. Nothing against them at all, its just another example.

I agree with raising tariffs on imports, it's the only way to protect livlihoods in this country. People are still going to buy whatever commodity it is, or eat it, they will just pay more for it. At least maybe they will have a job so they can afford to buy it. The only way the steel business in this country survived was thru tariffs on imports. The same goes for corn, wheat and everything else.
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Old 07-07-2004, 11:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest
Love this line: "Government handouts (and believe me, 80% tariffs on your competitors is a handout) make comapanies, and people for that matter, lazy and takes away any real need to excel. In the long run, it is not good for the country..."

Amen. So few people seem to understand that a tarriff is merely a comsuption tax and domestic producer subsidy. If more people could grasp this concept, it would dramitically change our economy for the better, in my estimation.

Of course, there is always the gloom and doom crowd who are still struggling with the lessons of the 1930's.
Ernest,
We agree on something.
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Old 07-07-2004, 11:19 PM   #15
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Greg, I think you have it right.

And, If you guys dont think Shrimping has some effect on the economy, you should drive by Sabine Pass. All there is here are shrimpboats and shrimping companies. There would be a lot of jobs lost, and a lot of restraunts with less to serve. I know most of you would like to see the industry go under, but I think they are making an honest living and deserve to work just like the rest of us. Im probably going to make enemys on this one, but I think the right thing has been done with the Tarriffs. This dont mean that we aren't trading with them anymore, it means that we are charging them a tax to do it. They are still going to sell to us, trust me, they need us, we eat a lot of seafood. More buying from the U.S means more economic growth. Anyway this would have went, The Bush administration would have had people against them. You cant please everyone all of the time. He hasn't tried my patience yet, thats for sure.
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Old 07-07-2004, 11:23 PM   #16
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Price of Shrimp

Frozen shrimp from South America is less than $1/pound DELIVERED in Houston. Good shrimp - 25-30ct. No subsidy/no tarriff/growers making good money.

Why don't we give our domestic shrimp a well earned break and enjoy these foreign shrimp while they last.....

steve
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Old 07-08-2004, 09:05 AM   #17
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Sabine Staker - With tariffs, they are charging the US consumer a tax. No "tax" is paid by the foreign producers. The only "tax" paid is by the US consumer. Thats the problem. We are supporting/providing jobs in the US by taxing US consumers.

The day someone figures out how we can tax our own people into prosperity, it will revolutionize economic theory and thought. Unfortunately, and notwithstanding the bravo sierra of press conferences and political speeches, that day has not arrived.
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Old 07-08-2004, 09:57 AM   #18
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The day someone figures out how we can tax our own people into prosperity, it will revolutionize economic theory and thought.

excellent quote!!!!

Look, if everything was to stay the same without tariffs, the domestic shrimping industry would survive. Of course a good portion would be weeded out, but there will ALWAYS be a demand for gulf shrimp. Exactly how much demand would be the question though.

The sky is not falling.

The problem is that commercial fishermen have a good degree of political clout and they are not too keen on international competition. Welcome to election year.
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Old 07-09-2004, 12:00 AM   #19
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Ernest, maybe we could look at this another way. I used to ride motorcycles and remember when the gov't starting taxing for any foreign motorcycle over 700cc. Just another example of using tax/tariff to force people to buy American because the price of the foreign product is as much or more then the American product. The gov't taxed the motorcycles to help Harley Davidson and other American large bike manufacturers.

The same thing happened to wheat in the mid 90's, Canada was dumping wheat so it was taxed higher. Tariffs on imports have been used for decades to control prices and protect American manufacturers.

I think the gov't should also consider taxing foreign tuna. Heck, the europeans won't play ball at all with us to conserve the bluefin species and it's been proved that they migrate across the Atlantic.

Like I said earlier, I think in the end, American standard of living will go down because the job losses to overseas have become too much to bear. Last I heard, 3 million jobs have been lost since 2000. I also think a lot of people take it too lightly that jobs are going overseas because it hasn't effected them, YET! I'm also willing to bet that the effect of the growing China economy is just beginning and things will get much crazier over the next 10 years. So if we aren't servicing much, or manufacturing much, what will we be doing? I will be retired in 10 years hopefully, I fear for today's and tomorrow's work forces.

Sorry I rambled on this but the criticality of the US Gov't controlling imports cannot be overstated and if tariffs do it, so be it.
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Old 07-09-2004, 07:29 AM   #20
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People I think the key word is "DUMPING" which has a definate meaning in regards to steel, shrimp and other products.
If goods are being sold in our country at a lower rate than in the country of production that is "DUMPING" and is the only time punative tarrifs may be imposed.
How ever any such tax makes no sense as the end user is the one who pays it. If the government wanted to do something then it would ban the importation of said product.
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