Kudos to John, Wes and Kyra! This looks like the best possible solution for everyone involved including current and future SCB owners.

 

Thanks for posting, not sure how anyone would be upset with you guys.

 

That was very well said.. Hopefully it will work out for all parties !

 

I don't know John Simmons or Shallow Sport folks, but both seem professional and build high quality boats. For the price of an SCB, I figured the company would have been better off. Good luck to Shallow Sport Boats.

 

Hope everyone makes out ok in the end.

 

Thanks for getting that out. Knew there had to be some details like that.

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So it's official.. I didn't believe it because Eric didn't respond to any other the other threads. But now I found that it's true. Good luck to Shallow Sport!

 

So there you have it.

 

Good luck to Shallow Sport! They're a great company and I think they'll do great things with SCB. Hope everything works out for all involved.


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Glad to see the brand live on and hopefully become profitable without compromising quality.

 

What all scb models will SS be making? Is the 25 recon and v22 still going to be available?

 

SCB didn't own the mold for the v22. He bought the hulls from Islamorada and finished out the interior, so I'm guessing that one goes away.

 

I would also like to add that Eric and Candace Simmons along with the staff at Simmons Custom Boats have been nothing short of professional and willing to help with their current and past customers. Everyone knows that Eric builds an excellent boat, we would have never even considered buying anything less. We would appreciate it if our supporters would treat them with kindness amid this unquestionably difficult time

 

there was a thread a while back (it was locked up) from a guy that was wondering why his SCB was taking longer and longer and he was having a hard time getting an answer from the owner

before that there was the boat dealer (a very very very small one) that was paying for places in the production line and you could buy from him and save time on the wait and occasionally he even had a few that were finished out for sale

having watched things with the boat building business over time I wondered about things

no matter the actual story I think what this really says is about how hard it is to run a business in the USA any more and how we are killing this country

as stated there is the known issues with paint shops, fiber glass hops ect where the regulations basically mean you have a massive investment in a shop before you can paint a car of lay up a hull

in the past a small business without major buying power could stay in business because the owner actually WORKED in the business to get part of his living instead of being a paper pusher and a form filler outer and an HR guy and basically a do nothing other than satisfy the endless pages of rules and regulations guy that contributes nothing to anything

I am sure there were plenty of times that the person running this business (or any other like it lately) wanted to reach out to a known trusted friend or couple of friends to come in for a week or two or three to help catch up in rigging, laying hulls, painting or anything else, but you run into all the nonsense that you have to go through to hire someone and to protect yourself and it just becomes impossible

so you just push through working extra hours or 7 days of the week

then more regulations come anyway

it gets to where even with your small crew making X number of units between the tax man, the HR rules in case someone hangs a girly calendar in the shop, figuring out if you have to offer "da healf carez", handing out the birf control devices and condoms, paid time off for personal decisions like having a kid, the slip and fall idiots, the unemployment scammers, the crack heads and thieves that past employers can't tell you about and on and on and you just can't get past you and 5 other trusted workers or it is a whole new world

then finally either you or someone else at a similar business decides they pretty much have to "go big" and so they do

they have to push through the "medium years" with never ending hours not doing what they love like building boats and instead making sure all the HR indoctrination videos are up to date and the birf control devices are not expired and finding a "qualifying healf plan" where all the GUYS in the shop have plenty of birf control pills and paid maternity leave

they have to find a shop that does not have too much pavement for too little green space, it has all the filters and light emitting diodes, but not too much light pollution for the stars because stars lives matter

then you have to find a dealer network because to move as many boats as you need to take it to the next level you need dealers.....you have to make a manual for the boats letting everyone know all the ingredients and the calorie count of each model with the different components......you have to crash test a few of them and then destroy them in an ecological friendly way or recycle them

finally you push past the "medium stage" and things are going good you have 200 people working for you, you are making 20 or 30 units a week, you have several big dealers

then the economy hits or one of your major dealers has an accountant (with a KNOWN past history that former employers could not mention) that steals all the money (and flees back to where ever they came here illegally from) or better yet BOTH! and suddenly you are not getting paid for your last 20 boats you sent to them and better yet some of what you were paid in a legitimate transaction is clawed back from you!

and with the economy demand is down by 10 units a week as well......but you still have the big shop, and those 200 employees, and that HR manual you paid $500,000 to get put together by a team of employment lawyers, you have those unemployment claims by the three guys you fired for huffing from the chemical barrels still to pay, that stack of birf control devices you had stocked up on at a discount, your healf carez plan goes up by 20% per person if you insure 2 less people than you have now because of a volume discount

your unemployment will go up if you lay people off because a JOB IS A RIGHT!, you have the big shop with the star friendly lighting still to pay off, you really do not want to let people go anyway.....you have the three HR people and the new unisex bathroom to pay for with the gender neutral and gay friendly toilets

you start to work more hours "doing what you love" which is actually producing something Vs talking to the HR guy and the insurance agents and the regulators and the tax man

but demand is still down and you have to let people go.....eventually the prices you negotiated with dealers for volume have to go up because they are not selling NEAR the volume because of the economy and yet if you bump prices on them they bump prices to the buyer and sales go down further

you cross the threshold from not just not making money when you factor in the cost of the investment and what you could do if you liquidated and placed that money in Tbills and stopped running a business, but you are actually taking out of your pocket to keep the doors open

if you are smart you make the though PERSONAL choice and shut the doors

if you are not you keep them open and push through to probable business bankruptcy

if you are really unlucky the one thing you never did because of screwed tax laws and credit demands was move the bigger company from off of a PERSONAL guarantee to being an LLC or similar......if not then when "business BK" hits well personal BK hits as well

then GENMAR comes in and buys out the assets and the name from BK and they either start making junk from a great name and live off of that for a bit.....or when the economy really hits and multiple of their dealers that were also faced with the go big or go home or stop selling Yamaha or Suzuki or Mercury and being a servicing dealer go under and leave GENMAR with the ability to make 500 boats a month and sales of 100 boats a month and a staff to make 450 boats a month (and all those birf control devices and that new earf friendly shop and the new book of calorie counts for each feature you can get on a boat)

and they go under and lay off 1,500 people and several brands that have been around go under forever......and the "little guy" can get back to competing to make boats by being the "little guy" that works in the shop and makes some of his living by actually producing something instead of keeping up with rules and regulations......but of course to do so his boats cost as much as a decent house did 8 years ago

and wait......here comes some more regulations and a redistributing tax policy and some min wage rules and some new rules dealing with hiring a highly skilled guy or two to help you rig a few boats on their weekend off because you are doing that to cheat the system and avoid hiring a new full time person and supplying him with maternity leave and birf control devices

so you sell out to the medium sized guy......and repeat

we are screwed in this country

I follow a couple of guys on another site that are building an awesome CC boat in Spain (actually on one of the Canary Islands) and really not just building the boat (one hull right now), but the entire production facility getting ready to see if they can ever make a go of it

at this point they are not sure if all they have done will result in more than a few boats and it is mostly just the two of them and a bit of help here and there

but they constantly talk about the issues with rules and regulations and inspections and permits and EU standards and on and on and how it is pretty much impossible for them to ever see a time when they can get producing

we are near that point in the USA as well and it is only getting worse......while most of the rest of the world pollutes, does things in a non-PC way, has much less restrictive tax codes and on and on.....and while we flood our shores with unskilled third worlders we have to take care of and get taxed to feed and of course export the jobs they MIGHT be qualified to do and regulate the rest of them out of existence or set labor rates and benefits packages that open up mechanization.....if a company can afford to make that jump....if not they will fold up if smart before it is too late and if not they will go BK and repeat

 

there was a thread a while back (it was locked up) from a guy that was wondering why his SCB was taking longer and longer and he was having a hard time getting an answer from the owner

before that there was the boat dealer (a very very very small one) that was paying for places in the production line and you could buy from him and save time on the wait and occasionally he even had a few that were finished out for sale

having watched things with the boat building business over time I wondered about things

no matter the actual story I think what this really says is about how hard it is to run a business in the USA any more and how we are killing this country

as stated there is the known issues with paint shops, fiber glass hops ect where the regulations basically mean you have a massive investment in a shop before you can paint a car of lay up a hull

in the past a small business without major buying power could stay in business because the owner actually WORKED in the business to get part of his living instead of being a paper pusher and a form filler outer and an HR guy and basically a do nothing other than satisfy the endless pages of rules and regulations guy that contributes nothing to anything

I am sure there were plenty of times that the person running this business (or any other like it lately) wanted to reach out to a known trusted friend or couple of friends to come in for a week or two or three to help catch up in rigging, laying hulls, painting or anything else, but you run into all the nonsense that you have to go through to hire someone and to protect yourself and it just becomes impossible

so you just push through working extra hours or 7 days of the week

then more regulations come anyway

it gets to where even with your small crew making X number of units between the tax man, the HR rules in case someone hangs a girly calendar in the shop, figuring out if you have to offer "da healf carez", handing out the birf control devices and condoms, paid time off for personal decisions like having a kid, the slip and fall idiots, the unemployment scammers, the crack heads and thieves that past employers can't tell you about and on and on and you just can't get past you and 5 other trusted workers or it is a whole new world

then finally either you or someone else at a similar business decides they pretty much have to "go big" and so they do

they have to push through the "medium years" with never ending hours not doing what they love like building boats and instead making sure all the HR indoctrination videos are up to date and the birf control devices are not expired and finding a "qualifying healf plan" where all the GUYS in the shop have plenty of birf control pills and paid maternity leave

they have to find a shop that does not have too much pavement for too little green space, it has all the filters and light emitting diodes, but not too much light pollution for the stars because stars lives matter

then you have to find a dealer network because to move as many boats as you need to take it to the next level you need dealers.....you have to make a manual for the boats letting everyone know all the ingredients and the calorie count of each model with the different components......you have to crash test a few of them and then destroy them in an ecological friendly way or recycle them

finally you push past the "medium stage" and things are going good you have 200 people working for you, you are making 20 or 30 units a week, you have several big dealers

then the economy hits or one of your major dealers has an accountant (with a KNOWN past history that former employers could not mention) that steals all the money (and flees back to where ever they came here illegally from) or better yet BOTH! and suddenly you are not getting paid for your last 20 boats you sent to them and better yet some of what you were paid in a legitimate transaction is clawed back from you!

and with the economy demand is down by 10 units a week as well......but you still have the big shop, and those 200 employees, and that HR manual you paid $500,000 to get put together by a team of employment lawyers, you have those unemployment claims by the three guys you fired for huffing from the chemical barrels still to pay, that stack of birf control devices you had stocked up on at a discount, your healf carez plan goes up by 20% per person if you insure 2 less people than you have now because of a volume discount

your unemployment will go up if you lay people off because a JOB IS A RIGHT!, you have the big shop with the star friendly lighting still to pay off, you really do not want to let people go anyway.....you have the three HR people and the new unisex bathroom to pay for with the gender neutral and gay friendly toilets

you start to work more hours "doing what you love" which is actually producing something Vs talking to the HR guy and the insurance agents and the regulators and the tax man

but demand is still down and you have to let people go.....eventually the prices you negotiated with dealers for volume have to go up because they are not selling NEAR the volume because of the economy and yet if you bump prices on them they bump prices to the buyer and sales go down further

you cross the threshold from not just not making money when you factor in the cost of the investment and what you could do if you liquidated and placed that money in Tbills and stopped running a business, but you are actually taking out of your pocket to keep the doors open

if you are smart you make the though PERSONAL choice and shut the doors

if you are not you keep them open and push through to probable business bankruptcy

if you are really unlucky the one thing you never did because of screwed tax laws and credit demands was move the bigger company from off of a PERSONAL guarantee to being an LLC or similar......if not then when "business BK" hits well personal BK hits as well

then GENMAR comes in and buys out the assets and the name from BK and they either start making junk from a great name and live off of that for a bit.....or when the economy really hits and multiple of their dealers that were also faced with the go big or go home or stop selling Yamaha or Suzuki or Mercury and being a servicing dealer go under and leave GENMAR with the ability to make 500 boats a month and sales of 100 boats a month and a staff to make 450 boats a month (and all those birf control devices and that new earf friendly shop and the new book of calorie counts for each feature you can get on a boat)

and they go under and lay off 1,500 people and several brands that have been around go under forever......and the "little guy" can get back to competing to make boats by being the "little guy" that works in the shop and makes some of his living by actually producing something instead of keeping up with rules and regulations......but of course to do so his boats cost as much as a decent house did 8 years ago

and wait......here comes some more regulations and a redistributing tax policy and some min wage rules and some new rules dealing with hiring a highly skilled guy or two to help you rig a few boats on their weekend off because you are doing that to cheat the system and avoid hiring a new full time person and supplying him with maternity leave and birf control devices

so you sell out to the medium sized guy......and repeat

we are screwed in this country

I follow a couple of guys on another site that are building an awesome CC boat in Spain (actually on one of the Canary Islands) and really not just building the boat (one hull right now), but the entire production facility getting ready to see if they can ever make a go of it

at this point they are not sure if all they have done will result in more than a few boats and it is mostly just the two of them and a bit of help here and there

but they constantly talk about the issues with rules and regulations and inspections and permits and EU standards and on and on and how it is pretty much impossible for them to ever see a time when they can get producing

we are near that point in the USA as well and it is only getting worse......while most of the rest of the world pollutes, does things in a non-PC way, has much less restrictive tax codes and on and on.....and while we flood our shores with unskilled third worlders we have to take care of and get taxed to feed and of course export the jobs they MIGHT be qualified to do and regulate the rest of them out of existence or set labor rates and benefits packages that open up mechanization.....if a company can afford to make that jump....if not they will fold up if smart before it is too late and if not they will go BK and repeat

Tell us how you really feel......

 

Well that almost puts a stake in it....
No one could blame Mr Simmons for the action he took. It must have been heartbreaking. It is very sad when a family business failed.

The only thing that seems to be missing from this story now is was Eric and the key production staff offered a position to come along for the ride and continue with the brand? Did they decline or were they never encluded being that highly skilled management and excellent production workers were already in place at SS.
Not asking for any other reason than to quell the loyalist for ES.

I bet one way or another in time we will see some fantastic boats coming out of this...will they be the same in every way...probably not!,, but who's to say that won't be a positive thing.

Good luck and Gods grace on all involved.

 

I have only heard positive about SCB or Shallow Sport. I believe the Shallow Sport family goes back to Willis Hudson making Falcon boats near where the current Pearland Bass Pro is.

It has been my opinion for many years that the boat building business is a tough business. Think of how many really high quality brands of boats are no longer made. Being a hard worker, honest, and producing fine quality still doesn't guarantee success in this business I don't think.

I wish the best to all concerned.

 

I too have been involved in business investments before where you finally say, "Screw the cheese, just let me out of the trap!"

 

my advice to Eric Simmons is this (and I only charge a small fee for this advice)

look into the EB-5 program and "play the game" the way it is meant to be played (and not by the rules)

get you some fresh new molds that YOU or an entity 100% controlled by YOU owns

get you a piece of land that YOU OWN and LEASE IT to yet another entity and that entity builds out a shop on it with all the "requirements" and again owned or 100% controlled by YOU or people you trust and LEASING the land under it in a series of short term leases

then get the EB-5 investors to fund up the "boat company" that LEASES the molds and LEASES the shop that is on land leased from you

the 8 or 10 EB-5 investors come in with their $4 to $10 million and fund up the purchase of fiberglass, "tooling", paint, desk, chairs, employee refrigerators (and those birth control devices you have to give out), payroll, the leases on the molds and land, utilities, all other materials ect

and start building boats with a 100% intention of making a profit

I would actually have the couple of flats models, a bass model (buy the molds from someone else of a popular brand selling out), a larger CC (38+ feet) and a couple of pontoons (fastest selling boat models out there and selling for huge money and keeps your welders working)

the EB-5 money also pays for a proper book keeper and a business manager and most importantly a purchasing manager

then you get back to what you love doing and that is building boats and pay yourself a nice salary

if things go well you all make money and your EB-5 investors even get their money back and make a profit as well and times roll on...make sure you have a clause to take back %s of the company as investments and returns are paid back

if things go bad and it ends up where you get squeezed well at the end of the day your EB-5 investors have a bunch of boat building materials and NO MOLDS and NO SHOP and they need to get those materials and remaining tooling and desk and birth control devices out of YOUR shop before the lease is up and or the can sell them out to you on the cheap and you can try a 3rd time

and oh yea they have the citizenship they would have paid a million dollars right to the US government for as well so they could care less about building boats or a lost investment in a boat company in some "rural or under-served area"

and even if you go into BK and the EB-5 investors try and keep the company and force you out and claim the molds and shop lease are integral to the company and as judges sometimes do they force you to renegotiate the cost of the shop lease and the mold lease....if those leases are SHORT TERM like 5 years......well in a few short years you will still have your molds and shop back

PS place the "name" of the company in yet another entity owned by you and again "license is" so you control it as well.....nothing worse than Fountain Boats without a Reggie Fountain in sight

some will say "who on earth would take a TERRIBLE business deal like that".....easy some third worlder with more cash than they know what to do with looking for first world citizenship

 

Geez TexasVines us old farts get tired reading that much...lol

 

Lol, i made it thru the first one, but gave up on the 2nd!

 

laguna red

Actually, if you read Johns email he said he gave Eric a chance to find investors and he never did.

 

Actually, if you read Johns email he said he gave Eric a chance to find investors and he never did.

So because John Earl said it thats the gospel? What was the price he gave Eric? Did he give him a price? But just because he said it in his email is has to be true huh?? Don't beleave every email you read

 

Can someone please post the Cliff's Notes for those essays ?

 

Unfortunate turn of events. I like most loved seeing the latest and greatest SCBs coming off the line, each one had new and creative details to make it a truly custom sled. I really feel for Eric, as someone as passionate as he seems about his craft, this has got to be really tough. That being said, can't fault an investor wanting to get out of a bad financial deal - its no fun losing money. Its a real kick in the nuts when the investor turns out to be dad. I truly hope Eric can partner up with someone and give it another go. I think the reaction over this deal proves he has a loyal following. No doubt due to the brilliant brand building and beautiful boats that rolled out of that factory. He can do it again, and hopefully uses these tough times as a learning opportunity. Hoping all involved (including SS) end up better on the back end after the dust settles. I hope Eric is reading these posts and knows the 2cool family is really pulling for him to make an epic comeback!

 

Texas Vines understands the concept of modern day revenuers. Imagine if chlorine storage is involved.

Hey Vines, if Trump wins should SCB go at it again?

 

my advice was what I said before

go EB-5

understand what you own and what you do not own

set up a business without personal involvement if at all possible

when times are good pay off any outside investors if you are tired of them or want them gone

also get rid of any personal debt guarantees at that time if you can

if you can't manage to swing that think hard about selling out THEN

when times are good THAT is when you work harder, do NOT buy toys and put money aside for down times and you lecture to your employees constantly to do the same

get used to the idea that if you hate "running a business" and like "building boats" you might have an EMPLOYEE that makes almost as much a year as you make.....set them up with an incentive program for business profitability.....have OUTSIDE auditors

when times are GREAT they might make MORE than you.....when times are slow they will make less than you

set yourself up to take time off when TIMES ARE SLOW (slow times should not be "bad times") and you have that dedicated core of employees and that OUTSIDE personal wealth that covers your reduced company income when times are slow

your employees do the same because they listened to you and put money AWAY in tomes of good so that they can buy toys and houses and other assets when times are "bad" (for others and slow for you) and get then at a DISCOUNT and have vacations when places are not jammed packed

do not get family or friends as investors

be prepared to turn away business if you cannot deliver even if that concept hurts and ESPECIALLY if taking that business expands you past your financial comfort zone

again when times are GREAT you are putting in the MAJOR hours as are your employees and putting money AWAY...."bad times" for others are OPPORTUNITY for you

and really even if Trump wins I am not sure he can help us at this point, but it will be a hell of a lot less damaging than the bern or the shill

 

Why do people think this is any of their business or that they have some sort of right to know what happened?

If you have an order in for an SCB you have the right to know how SS is going to handle it, but that's about it.



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Why do people think this is any of their business or that they have some sort of right to know what happened?

If you have an order in for an SCB you have the right to know how SS is going to handle it, but that's about it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

My guess is because it's a business that they're interested in. Or heck, maybe they're just nosy. Either way, doesn't matter to me

 

Building custom boats the same as cars is awesome, but no money to be made. As nice as they were lots went into them and appears that not enough profit was turned. Nice doesn't pay the bills. Awesome rigs non the less but this world revolves around $$ Like they say if it don't make $ it don't make sense.