Shrimpers off the 2nd/3rd bar???

5714 Views 52 Replies 22 Participants Last post by Sea-Slug, Jul 24, 2004

rjohnson107

Discussion Starter · Jul 21, 2004

As I was driving down the seawall yesterday, I noticed two shrimp boats off the beach around the 2nd/3rd bars. Is this legal? I thought they had to be much further out. I had to wonder about all those beach swimmers out there splashing around in the shrimpers by-catch and what might be following that shrimp boat with all those big sharp teeth.

1 - 20 of 53 Posts

Santiago

· #2 · Jul 21, 2004

Yes of course it's legal. The gulf opened on the 15th and no beach swimmer has ever been caught in a shrimp net yet.

Mont

· #3 · Jul 21, 2004

Check out http://2coolfishing.net/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=3584 and all the dead fish washing up thanks to these guys. I could be wrong, but I believe the limit is 300 yards from the shoreline.

Santiago

· #4 · Jul 21, 2004

Mont said:
Check out http://2coolfishing.net/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=3584 and all the dead fish washing up thanks to these guys. I could be wrong, but I believe the limit is 300 yards from the shoreline.

I know it seems like a lot but every by-catch study shows that shrimp trawling is not affecting populations of species. There are far less boats than there were even just 10 years ago and greater restrictions both on the area they can drag and the gear they are allowed to pull. They now are required to have both the turtlke excluder device and a by-catch reduction device. As far as the 300 yard limit I believe you are correct.

Dutch Treat

· #5 · Jul 21, 2004

What?

Santiago said:
I know it seems like a lot but every by-catch study shows that shrimp trawling is not affecting populations of species. There are far less boats than there were even just 10 years ago and greater restrictions both on the area they can drag and the gear they are allowed to pull. They now are required to have both the turtlke excluder device and a by-catch reduction device. As far as the 300 yard limit I believe you are correct.

Santiago, I would sure like to see the studies that give you that opinion.

Please cite them.

Santiago

· #6 · Jul 21, 2004

Dutch Treat said:
Santiago, I would sure like to see the studies that give you that opinion.

Please cite them.

I will quote from National Marine Fisheries Service publication GBNEP-34, â€œAlthough slight differences in ranking of individual species were observed by both Lampkin (1984) and Bessette (1985), the same species made up the bulk of the by-catch historically. Reports from commercial fishermen in Galveston bay indicate that these species generally dominate by-catch composition each year. atlantic croaker, sand seatrout, and spot are listed among the top recreational species landed by anglers in Galveston bay (Cambell, et al 1991) Thus, the abundance of these species in by-catch from shrimp trawls may be important when considering impacts on recreational or commercial landings. However, it appears that trawling operations in Galveston bay ARE NOT SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACTING INDIVIDUAL POPULATIONS OF THESE SPECIES.â€

speckle-catcher

· #7 · Jul 21, 2004

So, 2 ~20 year old and 1 ~13 year old studies?

Santiago

· #8 · Jul 21, 2004

speckle-catcher said:
So, 2 ~20 year old and 1 ~13 year old studies?

He asked and I quoted the only one I have at hand but will be glad to look up some more for you. What do you mean about jail though, I'm afraid I didn't understand? Anyway the older study actually proves my point as well because when that study was done there were far greater numbers of shrimpers. They were allowed to work about two thirds more hours (in the bay right now they have to quit at 2:00 every day and this in the very height of the brown shrimp season!) they could work far more area and they had almost no restrictions on the amount of gear they could pull. If they weren't affecting fish populations when they had more boats working more hours pulling far more webbing then obviously they aren't affecting them when there are less shrimpers working less hours pulling less webbing. I'm sorry if it offends anyone and know this goes against the common misconception about the shrimping industry.

bg

· #9 · Jul 21, 2004

Still, you're talking about shrimping in the bay and this post is about shrimping in the Gulf. Two completely different animals. NMFS has said on more than one occassion that nothing we do with limits and quotas will recover the Red Snapper fisheries as long as there is bottom trawling going on on the gulf. That sure sounds to me like bycatch is detrimental to at least the Red Snapper stocks...

Santiago

· #10 · Jul 21, 2004

You're right BG but since the bay is the nursery for many species I thought the two were not unrelated. I wasn't thinking about snapper at all actually since snapper do not make up a significant amount of trawl by-catch in the gulf. Snapper, as you know congregate around structure and shrimpers, as you know, religiously avoid structure or anything that could possibly tear an expensive shrimp net. And if you don't mind my asking where did NMFS say that?

Dutch Treat

· #11 · Jul 21, 2004

Santiago

Since you only seem prepared to discuss bay shrimping, I would ask that you go to www.scatexas.org and thoroughly digest the information contained there. Let me know what you think.

I do not have citations, but there are newer studies than those you are resting your point on. We have members here who are heavily involved in these issues and much better able to respond than I. I am sure they will chime in.

By the way, have you ever seen a gulf shrimper dumping bycatch? It ain't pretty.

Bob

P.S. are you in any way involved with commercial fishing of any sort?

bg

· #12 · Jul 21, 2004

Here's a summary of the most recent study I know of. Note specifically the second paragraph below the picture of the fish:

http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/students/fisheries/fisheries4.htm

Also -

"But it supports what we have been saying for some time -- that to rebuild the severely depleted red snapper fishery, both directed fishing effort and the red snapper bycatch in the shrimp fishery must be reduced." from

http://www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov/pr97/dec97/noaa97-r191.html

And this -

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/news/news/980420f.htm

In which NMFS said they wouldn't allow a season without improved preformance from BCRD's and finally, the full report:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/Snapper.pdf

See less See more

MEGABITE

· #13 · Jul 21, 2004

I think the distance should be at least 500 yards from shore myself. Especially since
Lou over on the Shark board counted 150 shrimp boats at one time off High island the other day! It's getting out of hand!

MEGABITE

Steelersfan

· #14 · Jul 21, 2004

Where's a TOW missile when you need it?

All those gulf shrimp boats would sure make a lot of nice bottom structure to help re-build the snapper stocks!

Hard Head

· #15 · Jul 21, 2004

BG, though valid, those reports are also 6 or 7 years old. However, have you ever been out on a Party Boat and watched how many undersized Snapper are released to their death due to an inflated swim bladder, now multiply that by the several hundred boats along the Texas Coast. If NMFS would allow you to keep the first 4 Snapper boated, that number would decrease. But then you have those who'll cull their catch and throw back the smaller Snapper for the larger ones. I really don't believe the Snapper numbers can be totally blamed on Trawls alone, especially the Gulf Boats dragging so close to shore. When is the last time you caught a Snapper from the Surf in our Home waters? I can say I never have.

speckle-catcher

· #16 · Jul 21, 2004

Santiago said:
What do you mean about jail though, I'm afraid I didn't understand?

Santiago - it's a sgnature line - something that gets automatically inserted at the end of every post. That's why it's below that line. Now, go back and read it alone and see if it makes sense.

BertS

· #17 · Jul 21, 2004

Lol

speckle-catcher said:
Santiago - it's a sgnature line - something that gets automatically inserted at the end of every post. That's why it's below that line. Now, go back and read it alone and see if it makes sense.

too funny.......and remember.....I'm laughing with you.....kind of.......lol

MEGABITE

· #18 · Jul 21, 2004

I really don't believe the Snapper numbers can be totally blamed on Trawls alone, especially the Gulf Boats dragging so close to shore.

Put the blame where the blame is due! FLIPPER! haha Those throwbacks ain't got a
chance!

MEGABITE

speckle-catcher

· #19 · Jul 21, 2004

better laughing with me, than at me.

bg

· #20 · Jul 21, 2004

HH, As far as I'm aware, these are the latest studies NMFS has. See their site:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/reports.html

I agree that the regulations could use some common sense tweaking. My point though is that Santiago says shrimpers don't detrimentally effect fish stocks and I disagree. They definitely are a detriment to Red Snapper in the Gulf. Those boat that are off the beach right now won't be there in another week or two.

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