[Ninjazx9rrida]

went to a boat ramp off the river and seen a couple guys towing in a boat. the constable was there waiting for them. i eased in and found out the guys found the boat and trailer washed up in some rocks and pulled it out and claimed "salvage" to it. the constable said the guys called it in to him, he made note of it and he ran the numbers and gave them owners contact info. he told them to send a certified letter to owners stating they had 30 days to pay his salvage/recovery fee. 1-3K and if they chose not to pay or did not respond, then the guys could start the paperwork for getting the salvage title.

i had no idea it worked like that, anyone else have any input/info?

 

[TomCat]

I don't know what "the law" is and I don't care. If I find someone's boat this soon after a storm I'll do all I can to help the unfortunate owner recover his boat. There seams to be a fine line between salvage and looting.

 

[TheAnt]

I don't know what "the law" is and I don't care. If I find someone's boat this soon after a storm I'll do all I can to help the unfortunate owner recover his boat. There seams to be a fine line between salvage and looting.

Amen... do the right thing, not the self-serving thing!

 

[pg542]

Ditto! Imagine some guy losing a big part of his world (house cars etc) and then the certified letter comes, "by the way I'm holding your boat for ransom. $3000 and you can have it. .....Jeez that's cold.

Amen... do the right thing, not the self-serving thing!

 

[Redstalker]

Some people are just greedy pigs.

Ditto! Imagine some guy losing a big part of his world (house cars etc) and then the certified letter comes, "by the way I'm holding your boat for ransom. $3000 and you can have it. .....Jeez that's cold.

 

[notthatdeep]

Is that looting?

 

[rlw]

Is that looting?

At least extortion.
Rick

 

[notthatdeep]

Not sure at which point it stops being looting and begins being salvaging. I guess if you know the constable it'll work for you.

 

[raz1056]

A couple of fishing buddies and myself were fishing the surf south of POC a few years ago and came across a shallowcraft flipped over in the breakers. Soon a boat and a couple of guys came to get it and we helped right it and get it floating enough for it to be towed, after they thanks and started back another fisherman that also helped them told us these were just salvage guys, or PIRATES, as I call them just out to loot someone. We actually found rod and reels and help put them back in the boat! No wonder they left smiling. I was sick.

 

[Mont]

there's a special place in hell for people like that

 

[rockhound76]

A word to the wise: If you are on your boat and it breaks down or runs aground, then someone offers you a tow, you need to confirm that they do not consider it salvage. The law says that if your are in imminent danger or represent an impediment to safe navigation and that the actions necessary to recover, move or secure your vessel imposes a "measurably significant risk or expense" to those offering assistance, then that action is consider "salvage" and your good samaritan then has rights to your boat or to a significant salvage fee (usually several boat bucks).

If your boat is afloat or aground and unoccupied, then the peril limitation does not apply and that boat is fair game for salvage.

When applied properly, it is a fair law, since marine recovery operations often involve significant risk. When applied improperly, it is a mix of piracy and extortion used to prey on folks most in need.

If a boat washed up on my beach, I'd make every effort to get it to the owner, no problem. If the owner expressed no interest in recovery or was unwilling to pay a fair and reasonable rate to recover the boat (or do it themselves), then I don't have a problem declaring it salvage and letting their insurance company handle it.

 

[redduck]

I think marine law was "intended" for those ships that went down at sea and the owners abandoned efforts to recover. The circumstances are such now that it amounts to stealing or as others have indicated "ransom". I would be ashamed to ask for money.

 

[bowed up]

SO COULD I FIND A BOAT ANCHORED UP ON A SHORELINE-GUYS 300 YARDS OFF WADING AND CLAIM SALVAGE TO IT.
SOME PEOPLE SHOULD BE SHOT ON THE SPOT.

 

[TXFPCOACH]

Found this

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN TOW AND SALVAGE

The service of towing is the employment of one vessel to expedite the voyage or delivery of another vessel when there is no immediate danger to life or the property apprehended. Towage is sometimes done for convenience purposes only, for example; when a pleasure craft has become disabled and needs delivery to safe harbor.

Salvage of a vessel is in order when there is an immediate need for service due to perilous conditions that require assistance by a salvor. Although a marine peril to the salved property is necessary to be considered a "valid claim" imminent or absolute danger of the vessel are not required. Context is normally the determining factor when deciding the nature of the services and the amount of compensation. This is why most salvors provide a "fixed price" or hourly rate for their services.

"The admiralty and maritime law of the United States has long recognized that the law of salvage rewards the voluntary salvor for his successful rescue of life or property".

If the salvor wants to do the job but does not know what the cost will be but will make claim afterwards, the final amount will be decided one of three ways -- negotiation with the owners insurance company; binding arbitration or, rarely, through litigation in federal admiralty courts.

SALVAGE COMPENSATION

Salvage is the compensation allowed to persons by whose voluntary assistance of a vessel at sea or her cargo or both have been saved in whole or in part from impending maritime perils.

The salvor shall owe a duty to the vessel and/or property owner to carry out the salvage operations with due care as to prevent or minimize damage to personal property and the environment.

The owner or operator of the vessel shall owe a duty to the salvor to co-operate fully with him during the salvage operations as to prevent or minimize damage to the environment.

The U.S. District Court in Washington summarized what constitutes a maritime peril in the case of McNabb vs O. S. Bowfin, as follows:
"to constitute a maritime peril, it is not necessary that the danger be actual or imminent, it is sufficient if, at the time assistance was rendered, the vessel was stranded so that it was subject to the potential danger of damage or destruction".

A vessel driven aground on a beach, or similar gravel or shell, for example, in the area involved must be considered as in a state of peril, exposed to wind, weather, and waves, it does not require extensive reflection to come to the conclusion as to being in immediate maritime peril.

GENERAL RATE STRUCTURE

GENERAL TOWING/SALVAGE RATES NORMAL SEA STATE

COST​

SERVICE DESCRIPTION​

$175.00 PER HOUR
​

TIME STARTS FROM DEPARTURE FROM HOME PORT AND ENDS WHEN TOW BOAT RETURNS TO HOME PORT " PORTAL TO PORTAL"
​

$20.00 PER FOOT *
​

ADDITONAL COST FOR SOFT-UNGROUNDINGS. IN AN ADDITION TO "PORTAL TO PORTAL" CHARGES A $20.00 PER FOOT OF BOAT CHARGE
​

$175.00 PER HOUR
​

PORTAL TO PORTAL TIME PLUS COST OF FUEL DELIVERED DELIVERY
​

$40.00 PER HOUR **
​

SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY / HIGH WIND / RAIN-THUNDER/LIGHTENING ADDITIVE CHARGE
​

$20.00 PER HOUR
​

NIGHT OPERATION CHARGE
​

$90.00 PER HOUR
​

WATER TAXI / DELIVERY OF VESSEL "PORTAL TO PORTAL"
​

$50.00 PER HOUR
​

NEW VESSEL CHECK OUT / INSPECTION / OPERATOR FAMILEARIZATION
​

PER CASE BASIS
​

VESSEL SALVAGE / DIVER SERVICES
​

*Soft Grounding - In addition to "Portal to Portal" an hourly towing charges, boater will be charged $20.00 per foot of the vessels length to be pulled free. The ungrounding fee is NOT based on the time it takes to pull you free, but rather the Length of the boat.
** When Small Craft Advisories are in effect our rates will have an additional charge of $40.00 per hour. This is done because of the significant increase in risk to our crews and equipment.

 

[squidmotion]

A word to the wise: If you are on your boat and it breaks down or runs aground, then someone offers you a tow, you need to confirm that they do not consider it salvage. The law says that if your are in imminent danger or represent an impediment to safe navigation and that the actions necessary to recover, move or secure your vessel imposes a "measurably significant risk or expense" to those offering assistance, then that action is consider "salvage" and your good samaritan then has rights to your boat or to a significant salvage fee (usually several boat bucks).

If your boat is afloat or aground and unoccupied, then the peril limitation does not apply and that boat is fair game for salvage.

When applied properly, it is a fair law, since marine recovery operations often involve significant risk. When applied improperly, it is a mix of piracy and extortion used to prey on folks most in need.

If a boat washed up on my beach, I'd make every effort to get it to the owner, no problem. If the owner expressed no interest in recovery or was unwilling to pay a fair and reasonable rate to recover the boat (or do it themselves), then I don't have a problem declaring it salvage and letting their insurance company handle it.

this is a good post on a very important subject...

yep, most people don't realize this... marine law works a bit different.... those guys were doing everything by the book, probably. even though it stinks for the owner of the boat, what they are doing is totally legal (though still not right, in my opinion)

gotta be careful on what you do, and be very sure of the rules when getting a tow, even!!!

 

[notthatdeep]

And this guy is salvaging lost beer on the water:

 

[JohnHumbert]

Geez!

You guys can be pretty harsh and judgemental somtimes! It's real nice to say how much you'd help out sitting at your computer taking no risks. However, IMO, the real world is a bit different.

There are tons of boats out there representing a significant risk to everyone, and have considerable value. If you are one that willing to tow your boat to the coast RIGHT NOW, and spend the day risking injury to yourself and damage to your property to help float and return a boat to the owner at no cost - my hat's off to you!

However, the people who will end up ACTUALLY doing the work needed to be done think about it differently. And I, for one, don't blame them.

There's a HUGE difference from helping someone out here or there and a major recovert effort on a sunken/damaged vessel. There's also a HUGE difference between someone trying to get one "free" boat and someone who undertakes the effort as a business.

For me personally - going out and snagging one boat for myself and using salvage laws to get the boat free or reduce cost is not something I would do. However, if I planned on bringing back or clearing many boats from an area and spend considerble time and effort to do so - then I see nothing wrong in using the salvage process and being compensated.

If someone DIDN'T do this as a business, then it probably wouldn't get done for a long time. Certainly the Coasties and other agencies aren't going to salvage thousands of boats, nor should they. It will be private enterprise.

You wouldn't condemn a builder for rebuilding someone's house and charging a fair price - or do y'all consider those folks pirates and unethical too?

To do it properly, bringing up sunken boat takes hard work, special equipment, and cost - not to mention the knowledge to do it.

Remember, most folks aren't to have the time or resources to it themselves, even with friends and family. Someone else is going to have to do it. Why shouldn't that person be paid for their services? Just like a builder, tree service, etc. Just because it's a boat it's suppose to be different? C'mon here guys!

While I admit that there could be some "profiteers" out there - you also must consider that a lot of these people, in effect, left their boats to the storm. Many because they wanted the insurance more than the boat. It's dollars to sense (sic) for them, why shouldn't it be so for the salvor?

Salvage boats - and I've had some experience here - are almost always more trouble than you think! You have to figure any boat "washed" up sometime has the engines submerged or at least substantial damage by water. The boat might have stayed afloat and the engine might be OK, but how can you be sure? The only way is to break down the engine - at a cost that could run several thousand - and guess what, there isn't an insurance company out there that will pay for a break-down inspection for a "small" outboard boat.

Yes, I know, I know - there are folks out there screaming that you don't have to break down the engine, you can just go through the "inspection ports". Yup, been down that road, and know people that have too - IN EVERY CASE WHERE THE MECHANIC SAID "A-OK" through the inspection cover, the engine ended up failing. So "NO thanks", for me.

Most times, especially if the engine is not immediately re-submerged in water or oil, is going to be a total loss - just junk. So you are really just looking at the hull - and sorry folks - most used hulls are just not worth that much unless they are large. A 1-yo 21 shallow water boat with a 150 hp that initially cost around $30K - after submerging - is probably only worth a $3-5K - and is going to take probably another $15K to get it back to shape (that's figuring on a new engine).

Face it, most of these boats are now junk. What worries me is folks that think that getting the boat back to the owner is doing the owner a favor. If it were me, I'd hope they'd NEVER find my boat. Would rather get a check for a total loss than try to deal with "salvage" repairs. Especially since most of the problems are going to show up until well after the insurance has paid.

If I was in the situation that many are, and someone contacted me that they found my boat - the smart thing to do is let them have it! Let THEM deal with the insurance company, while I shop for a new boat. If they made some money off it or got a cheap boat - more power to 'em. Unfortunately, many are more in love with their boats than their spouses! LOL! (Just kidding folks!)

Now where it really comes into play is where the boat is large and the instrisic value far exceeds the cost of the engines. If I found a 32-Blackfin awash somewhere, I might indeed think about salvaging the boat. In fact, I looked into this after Katrina very seriously. In this case, I might might a serious salvage effort and spend a few thousand raising the boat and getting it to port/dock, then contact the owner and insurance company and go from there. In circumstances such as this, it might be worth it for me to spend $30-$40K to get a $130K boat.

In these cases - and again I have some first-hand knowledge here - the owner ALMOST ALWAYS is overjoyed! Either they like the boat so much and want to keep it and figure $1K-$3K recovery cost is minor. Or they say, we don't want it, it's yours - and either way the insurance company pays.

It's not like the salvage cost is footed by the individual - I've NEVER heard that happen, not even once - if the boat is insured. If it's not insured, then the owner is not likely to want to the boat and incur the cost of a "salvage" repair. If they do, they are most likely foolish - because as I said, a salvage boat usually is much more expensive than you would think and usually not worth the effort for the original owner.

 

[redduck]

I hear what you are saying John but I have some concerns. First the roofers and folks building fences and such do not jump up on my roof and say I fixed it so now you owe me. I have to approve first. Second, your trying to make it sound like your salvage business is not worth the effort but it must be profitable are you would not be in the business. If you found a dozen boats on a shoreline do you just recover the expensive ones and let the others sit there. I have thought about this and I guess if it were a commercial boat that you are salvaging then maybe. But the average Joe you looses a boat in a major hurricane will probably have enough to worry about. I guess I could even go along with it if you called the guy first and said "hey your boat is over here against a shoreline or even submerged and I can retrieve it for such and such cost". If he says yes then go for it. I just have a problem with " i found this boat and this is what it cost to get it back".

 

[Mont]

John, the average person isn't even allowed on the water right now around here. If someone is a professional salvage operation, then what you say has merit. If it's someone "cherry picking" jobs and hoping for a payday, I don't think it's right. Legal and right are different things sometimes. I wouldn't go into a flooded house from someone I didn't know, install a new a/c and then send someone the bill. It don't work like that. We both know the difference between right and wrong. Problem is, not everyone does.

 

[BradP]

Not going to dive into my old Maritime law books from TAMUG, but the constable needed to watch what he sad. The law of salvage is not an easy one to interpret and most larger cases end up in Federal courts. Law of salvage does not give the right for a party to TAKE or STEAL or CLAIM a boat is theres for towing/recovering it...it only gives the right for $$ compensation for the salvage job. This can be made into liens and property losses but it takes a courtroom and lawyers to do so legally.