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anyone know anywhere that's better than the below?

I'm locked at 2.75 with .75 points credit

with pen fed credit union

option to move to 2.5 for .875 points or 2.375 for 1.125 points any time between now and 15 days from closing for no fee.

i know that's already pretty low but still i'd like lower if possible. I've looked around at big names and some small names and a couple in that ball park but haven't found any that are as low

30 year mortgage
 

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That seems like a good rate. Any discount made now will be more than offset by the massive interest on the 30 year note. Maybe you can and will pay more, so you pay if off early, but 30 year plans will cost more long term if you don’t pay extra.
 

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we just refinanced our house and closed last week at 2.5% for 15 years. Have you weighed the difference in monthly payments on 15 versus 30? You can save a TON of money if you can do that sort of payment
 

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Most know this but I will go ahead and post it. The average stock market return is around 10%. Therefore, many believe you should keep that 30 year mortgage, investing what you can in the market. This should result in > 7% return in your favor.

That's what I recommend. You get no reward for missing out on that 7% return and paying your loan off early.
 

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Most know this but I will go ahead and post it. The average stock market return is around 10%. Therefore, many believe you should keep that 30 year mortgage, investing what you can in the market. This should result in > 7% return in your favor.

That's what I recommend. You get no reward for missing out on that 7% return and paying your loan off early.
however unlike the value in a home, the stock market fluctuates greatly. What is a 7% return today could bite you in the rear next year if Biden keeps destroying jobs, stifling the economy (just like Obama did) raising gas prices and raising taxes. If we'd have had a different election results, I'd agree with you but there's not a lot of economic certainty with Biden bombing the middle east, dismantling job saving/creating policies, opening our border, etc.
 

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No different than my saying the real estate market could crash.
It's the old Dave Ramsey vs Ric Edelman battle in financial planning... Paying off a mortgage or taking full advantage of the (perceived) gains in the market?

Both strategies work just fine.

I think age is the key metric when looking to do a 15 or a 30 year mortgage. I would put the magic number at 45. If you are older than 45 go with a 15 year mortgage. If you are younger than 45 go with a thirty year mortgage and invest the difference in the market.

Two reasons for this: 1.) You don't really want a mortgage when you close in on retirement. 2.) If you are younger you have more time to ride out a correction, recession or depression when one comes along. And one will come along...

History has shown us a couple of things. The market usually outperforms real estate. Except for when it doesn't, like the stock market crash of 1929', Black Monday Crash Of 1987', DotCom bubble burst of 2000 and that whole Great Recession thing in 2007-2008.

I would argue that paying off the mortgage in 15 and investing the rest in the market is a more balanced approach. The OP is 38 so time is on his side but if all his eggs are in the market basket there is nothing wrong with paying off the mortgage early and chalking this one off to "diversification".
 

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Biggest regret I have is getting a 30 year mortgage. If you can afford the jump in payments go with the 15 or at least pay the same amount as a 15 year loan so your 30 is paid off sooner, if things get tight you can always go back to the normal payment.


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Doing the quick math......Dave Ramsey cost me about $140K in the recent past.

Debt free....which is great....but doing so cost me a missed opportunity on a ton of gains.

Paying off a house is an emotional decision when rates are this low. Over a 15-30 year period, the odds of the market delivering less than 3% is pretty low.
 

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Doing the quick math......Dave Ramsey cost me about $140K in the recent past.

Debt free....which is great....but doing so cost me a missed opportunity on a ton of gains.

Paying off a house is an emotional decision when rates are this low. Over a 15-30 year period, the odds of the market delivering less than 3% is pretty low.
I'm debt free and I think that paying off my house was one of the smartest financial decisions of my life. Like most Americans I was too heavily invested in the market, paying off my house was one of the ways to diversify.

It's been my experience that in life things happen. People lose jobs, get life threatening diseases, stock markets can lose half their value in a short period of time and inflation can steal from your savings.

Owning a home is one of the best hedges against all of the above.

Ask yourself this question. If financing a home over 30 years is such a smart financial decision why are there so many institutions willing to loan you money at sub 3% rates? If you are losing out on "gains" in the market think what the banks are losing out loaning billions at 3%?

It's hard to measure just what you have gained by paying off your house but I promise it is not a "bad" investment. You are not paying 3% and the value of the home is most likely increasing.
 

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I'm debt free and I think that paying off my house was one of the smartest financial decisions of my life. Like most Americans I was too heavily invested in the market, paying off my house was one of the ways to diversify.

It's been my experience that in life things happen. People lose jobs, get life threatening diseases, stock markets can lose half their value in a short period of time and inflation can steal from your savings.

Owning a home is one of the best hedges against all of the above.

Ask yourself this question. If financing a home over 30 years is such a smart financial decision why are there so many institutions willing to loan you money at sub 3% rates? If you are losing out on "gains" in the market think what the banks are losing out loaning billions at 3%?

It's hard to measure just what you have gained by paying off your house but I promise it is not a "bad" investment. You are not paying 3% and the value of the home is most likely increasing.
I would never say it was a "bad" investment....it just led to a significant opportunity cost based on what the market has delivered since I made the payoff.

Does it feel good to be debt free? Absolutely!
Do I wish in hindsight I had waited a couple of year to do it......heck yes since I would be able to pay off the same debt and have over $100K leftover.

The value of my home will appreciate with or without me carrying a mortgage.
And I am not happy with a consistent 3% return. I just made the emotional decision to pay it off.
 

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Good luck buying a home at a reasonable cost right now...in certain areas anyway. I'm in the market and it is near impossible unless you're willing to cough up a bunch of cash and forgo appraisal option, willing to pay all closing cost, etc. Homes are under contract within 24 hours!

Buyers are having to make offers $20k+ above ask and willing to make up the difference in what home appraises for and offer just to be considered. Depending on buyers finances, that is a big deal. Most buyers are already putting up 3% - 5% for loan. Add to this closing cost and appraisal difference and this puts a lot of buyers out of the game.

A buyer has to ask is paying $20k over ask worth it, willing to pay another 3% for all closing cost, and $5k - $20k above appraisal out of pocket?

I've decided to wait. Financially it doesn't make sense to me to over pay for a home.
 

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however unlike the value in a home, the stock market fluctuates greatly. What is a 7% return today could bite you in the rear next year if Biden keeps destroying jobs, stifling the economy (just like Obama did) raising gas prices and raising taxes. If we'd have had a different election results, I'd agree with you but there's not a lot of economic certainty with Biden bombing the middle east, dismantling job saving/creating policies, opening our border, etc.
The Dow's all-time high was 31,613.02 points on Feb. 17, 2021.
 

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This should not be about politics. Historically the stock market has done just as good under (D's) as it has done under (R's).

Regardless of who is the current President the stock market is way overdue for a correction. Both President Trump and now Biden are resorting to unprecedented stimulus to keep this economy afloat as a result of our response to the pandemic.

The Buffet Indicator is at an all time high and many of the smartest investors are saying this market is way overbought. Gold, Bitcoin and other indicators are high as well.

Part of being a good investor is knowing when to take something off the table and diversity is always a good thing. Paying off a home is always a good thing.

Forget about "perceived losses" in the market.
 

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I'm debt free and I think that paying off my house was one of the smartest financial decisions of my life. Like most Americans I was too heavily invested in the market, paying off my house was one of the ways to diversify.

It's been my experience that in life things happen. People lose jobs, get life threatening diseases, stock markets can lose half their value in a short period of time and inflation can steal from your savings.

Owning a home is one of the best hedges against all of the above.

Ask yourself this question. If financing a home over 30 years is such a smart financial decision why are there so many institutions willing to loan you money at sub 3% rates? If you are losing out on "gains" in the market think what the banks are losing out loaning billions at 3%?

It's hard to measure just what you have gained by paying off your house but I promise it is not a "bad" investment. You are not paying 3% and the value of the home is most likely increasing.
No one is saying paying off one's home is a bad investment. Is it the best way to grow one's portfolio? That is debatable. If it makes you happy I'm happy for you. You seem very convinced of your strategy.

I'm a believer in real estate, especially today, so I'm with you there. I have a few houses- each has a mortgage. Each is growing and each mortgage is making me money and freeing cash that returns even greater rates. I would have just the one house if I chose to pay off that mortgage.

If you are following Buffet or his outdated indicator, you have lost to the market over the last 10 years which has been a considerable----> 75% underperformance.

Speaking for myself, I wish I had learned to leverage credit and other people's money years before I finally figured it out. When I look at the really rich, more often than not, that's what they seem to be doing.
 

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No one is saying paying off one's home is a bad investment. Is it the best way to grow one's portfolio? That is debatable. If it makes you happy I'm happy for you. You seem very convinced of your strategy.

I'm a believer in real estate, especially today, so I'm with you there. I have a few houses- each has a mortgage. Each is growing and each mortgage is making me money and freeing cash that returns even greater rates. I would have just the one house if I chose to pay off that mortgage.

If you are following Buffet or his outdated indicator, you have lost to the market over the last 10 years which has been a considerable----> 75% underperformance.

Speaking for myself, I wish I had learned to leverage credit and other people's money years before I finally figured it out. When I look at the really rich, more often than not, that's what they seem to be doing.
cman, I never said paying off a home was the best way to grow a portfolio. If you follow the law of averages the market is a better return than real estate. I am just saying that paying off a house in 15 is not a bad choice that offers diversification.

The title of this post is "mortgage rate" not "financial advice". You kind of got it sidetracked into the whole Market vs Real Estate topic.

As for Buffett's "indicator" I think it still holds true. Without the massive intervention in 2008 from the Fed and the last three stimulus packages there is no doubt our economy and stock market would look much different.

We will see what happens to the market after the stimulus checks stop and the fact that we will be facing a period of prolonged high unemployment and the necessity to raise taxes to pay for all this...

As I said before most people are too heavily vested in equities and do not have a balanced portfolio. The next down turn will wipe trillions of dollars of wealth out in a short period of time and it may not bounce back as fast as it did in 2008. Simply Google Joe Kennedy and the Shoeshine Boy.
 

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Santana...I don’t disagree with anything you said.

Both strategies are sound...it’s just a matter of 1) a person’s appetite for risk/return and 2) what stage they are in life and the investment cycle.

It’s all a bit of legalized gambling...just with typically better returns than Vegas. :)
 

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cman, I never said paying off a home was the best way to grow a portfolio. If you follow the law of averages the market is a better return than real estate. I am just saying that paying off a house in 15 is not a bad choice that offers diversification.

The title of this post is "mortgage rate" not "financial advice". You kind of got it sidetracked into the whole Market vs Real Estate topic.

As for Buffett's "indicator" I think it still holds true. Without the massive intervention in 2008 from the Fed and the last three stimulus packages there is no doubt our economy and stock market would look much different.

We will see what happens to the market after the stimulus checks stop and the fact that we will be facing a period of prolonged high unemployment and the necessity to raise taxes to pay for all this...

As I said before most people are too heavily vested in equities and do not have a balanced portfolio. The next down turn will wipe trillions of dollars of wealth out in a short period of time and it may not bounce back as fast as it did in 2008. Simply Google Joe Kennedy and the Shoeshine Boy.
Juan - Congrats on the great rates. I will look for your other posts and will reach out to Pen myself. Let us know what you determine about the points.

Santana- I'd say you got it sidetracked. When one suggestion for the OP was a 15 yr I suggested a 30, and then you set off justifying your paying off your mortgage and the current state of the economy.
Since you brought up Buffet here's his opinion on the 30 yr mortgage as "the best instrument in the world."
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/06/heres-why-warren-buffett-thinks-you-should-buy-a-home.html
 
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