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I know this is going to open a can of worms but I want some others opinions. This is in regards to "managing" property and the waste of a resource. My family has recently bought a piece of property in Menard county and we are just learning what we need to kill off of the place and the management plans of our neighbors. We have four guns on 850 acres and definitely need to take at least 15 to 20 does this year. This is where my problem arises. My family (myself, parents, sisters/bro-in-laws/nephews) can eat around 10 to 12 deer a year. We process everything ourselves and make hamburger, cutlets, jerky and sausage. Once we have killed what we can handle we will bring in friends and other family to take out the rest of what needs to be killed(culls&does). Sometimes this is not enough but I'm not going to just shoot something and let it lay. The man that leases our land for cattle also has the place next to us leased and has mentioned seeing does laying on the place that have been shot with just the hind legs and backstraps taken. This disgusts me. I have lost all respect for that neighbor and don't believe a word he says in regards to his "management" plans. He seemed shady from the get go and they do way to much shooting in their pasture for my liking. I also have friends that hunt on south Texas high fence ranches and talk about waste of deer all the time. To me if you do this you are not a hunter. My grandpa taught me if you shot it, it doesn't go to waste. I think this is the mentality of a true hunter and the attitude I will pass to my children. What are yalls opinions and have you witnessed this wasteful attitude in so called hunters.

 

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i had a similar situation but with fishing , i had access to like 3000 acres and dozens of small tanks. i was always real carefull about no leaving trash and doin a selective cull no real big keepers like 1 pound buck bass and crappie. well about 2 years ago i stoped catching big fish all together and eventually all decent fish, trash (cig wrappers 22 shells and all kinds of trash). Started apperaing well the property owner let the nighbors colege aged son and all his buddies hunt and fish there at leaisure and destroyed an excellant system. i also have a cousin who when we go ducking shoots everthing that flies never heard of being sporting. so i fell for you
 

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Wildman and I are great friends, so he already has heard my thoughts for the most part, but I'm going to post in order to share with others.

I'm one of the "witnesses" he spoke of in regards to south Tx. Certain guys on the ranch I get to hunt down there don't keep the front shoulders or the necks or the ribs. Throughout my life (I'm 26) I've always kept everything but the neck and ribs just b/c I've never seen anyone keep that stuff until here recently (I've hunted since I was 6)...so out of ignorance I didn't keep it. From now on I will be keeping the neck for sure b/c it'll be hamburger or sausage anyway. I haven't decided if I'm going to scrape the ribs yet or not?

I keep one full deer a year (a doe) b/c that's all I will eat. However, I kill anywhere from 3-9+ deer a year. THE ONES I DON'T KEEP DON'T GET WASTED! A lot of the extra deer are does, culls, and spikes from the south Tx ranch mentioned above (there are permits for the does and spikes). The "extra" deer killed at that ranch ALL go to someone who wants them/needs them...whether it's someone from town or a hunger organization in town...I've been assured none get wasted. Some of the other deer I may kill might be bucks or does killed at other places as either trophy or management...for those, if there is not someone in camp that wants the meat, I have no problem taking care of the meat until I get it to a Hunters For The Hungry location. I have no problem paying $20-$30 to donate the animal to someone who NEEDS it. Every year I print out a list of every participating location across Texas. The bottom line is that I won't pull the trigger on a deer if I think it's going go to waste.

Wildman also knows that I feel like a lot of deer should be killed (especially initially) to manage a ranch for bigger bucks. With the bucks, you start from the bottom up. If you are serious about trying to manage for big bucks, there are certain bucks that should be shot on sight.

It all depends on how serious you want to be. Let me also say that I don't feel like a gung-ho management program is the best thing for every ranch. To each his own.

I don't like high fences.
I don't like bringing in pen raised or non-native breed bucks or does.
I don't agree with the wasting of game.
I don't agree with killing beyond your legal limit.
etc., etc.

Those are some of my thoughts....
 

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We all have it coming......
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Wildman:

I agree with you 99%. No deer meat should go wasted. We have 8 guys on our ranch and we are required to kill between 50 and 60 deer a year. That's an average of over 6 deer per gun. A couple of the guys would never eat that much meat. Especially, considering we shoot 50-75 pigs per year also. We give meat to all who want it. Additionally, we bring in a group of kids from The Texas Youth Hunting Program once a year for a hunt. They help us get our numbers down and we can promote the sport of hunting to our future. Additionally, with worthwhile programs like Hunters for the Hungry. No deer should be left as you described.

Now for the 1% I left out. Our landowner wants any and all large boar hogs killed on site. They do an enormous amount of damage to the land. Now, we don't shoot them all. But, will kill alot of them -- when it is convenient. We refer to them as "Draggers." To big to get on a 4 wheeler, so we drag 'em. They usually end up as **************. However, these are not killed for sport. It's almost like rodent control. Different circumstances...IMO.

My 2 cents.
 

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Iusedtofish
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I was on a buddies ranch in so. Texas last new years, and witnessed some of his hunters drag up a decent 8pt. cut the backstraps and the hind quarters, didnt even put a tag on the deer and left it. They also shot 6or7 small pigs and left them in a pile. Shoot man, those little pigs are the good eating ones. After I pointed that out to my buddy, the company that leased the place got removed. I was raised the same ... eat what you kill... period. I cant stand to see a waste of a resource. I agree that in order to have a good herd, you have to get the buck to doe ratio in check, but I believe that some of the game biologist go a little overboard with number of does they suggest to kill each year.
 

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Unfortunately this happens alot I suspect. On my last lease the land owner told us up front each year how many does he wanted taken off, usually large numbers. It got to the point where he would just say, "kill all you want, hell leave 'em lay if you want if you don't I will." It kinda hacked me off but he did have a big hunt with the fireman and cops each year for the town game dinner on the rest of his ranch. He was just overrun (he thought, I disagree) and we didn't want to add anyu more guns on the place. I guess it probably helped the herd though since the deer had cows and goats for food competition. It seemed like a shame but I guess coyotes gotta eat too.
 

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When you quarter and clean your deer you must take the rib meat, neck, tenderloins and quarters. If you don't, you have just committed a felony...its in the book....I don't know your place but that seems like alot of doe for that amount of land and especially with your neighbor shooting everything...you are going to have to consider his ethics into your game management. I used to hunt on a ranch in Webb county,,,the landowner told us we better shoot every spike we saw unless it was a yearling...he said if we didn't he would and he would let them lay.....we took care of it for him and no deer went to waste.
 

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I agree with what y'all have said as I relate it to my fishing. I only keep what my family/friends can eat. So far this year, we have been eating a lot of chicken! :(
Mike
 

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Sky Liver Eatin nujaC
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so with all this high and mighty kill what you eat... You ever eat coyote? jack rabbit? cottontail? skunk? javilina? armadillo? nutria? bob cat? mtn. lion? you ever kill one of these? I for one will not shoot what I wont eat. ...if i shoot a squirl im a gonna eat the nutty basterd. I take a life Im sure to use it. Why leave it to just deer?
I know I have not posted here too much, really dont want to tak eth thread but this is a subject that really gets to me.
A life is a life, you pull the trigger the life is gone... you leave it lay( no matter the animal) that animal has(had) no purpose.
Ive been around too many people that will shoot(destroy) life for the "fun" of it and I despise them. I have no problem with killing something. But if for no other reason to see if ya can hit it that is another story.
I dont mean to get all PETA on ya but this hill billy **** has got to stop. and dont give me the over population/ hurts cattle/ protect the farmer ****... the coyote and the black bird have been here longer than us and deserves respect.
 

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HogHeaven, I think your kinda outaline on this...there is nothing wrong with killing a nuisance anmial. Sometimes problem animals have to be taken. It does make sense to protect a deer herd, cattle herd, goat herd, farm land from coyotes, hogs, wild dogs and other pest. Killing for the fun of just killing,,,no that is not right,,,but if it for a legitimate, God given, reason then I see no prob with it. I too have a problem with someone just shooting a animal for the heck of it. I don't think anyone who has posted on this subject has advocated killing just for the joy of killing......
 

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i've had jackrabbit taqiutos. kinda tasty, but not anything to drool over. i'll let 'em fun from now on.

i love fresh game/fish. i don't freeze any unless i'm saving up for a fish fry or dove bites for a game or something. cleaning your catch/kill and freezing until freezer burn is the same as leaving it in the field/water. i keep what i can eat fresh, or if i keep a bunch, it's a reason to buy some beer and throw a block party.
 

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I'll have to double check, but I thought that it wasn't required by law to keep the neck? I can't remember reading about the ribs.

I've let a big ole' nasty boar go to waste before, and would do the same in the future if I was at a place where I knew they wanted them killed. I'll also admit that I shoot a fair amount of jackrabbits, and no I don't keep them. I do keep cottontails that I kill and enjoy eating them very much. I killed 9 skunks in one night in the yard of the house at the south Tx ranch, I didn't keep them, I killed them b/c the owner asked me to kill all the skunks around the house that I could. I don't keep the fur off coyotes or eat them. I passed on shooting two bobcats last year b/c I wasn't going to get them mounted and didn't want to mess w/ their pelts...and I dang sure wasn't going to eat them.

Having said all that, I've definitely made my mistakes in the field and in hind sight I've been unethical at times in my life, but I'm learning from the mistakes I've made and the many mistakes I've seen others make.

It doesn't make waste right, but someone with the intentions of waste is worse than someone who atleast has good intentions...IMO.
 

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I agree with Woodrow. My sentiments and experiences are almost exactly the same.

BTW Hogheaven....Ever set a mouse trap? If so, did you eat it?
 

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glancing through the annual, the only thing I could find on neck/ribs if concercing processing deer/antelope in camp. It is against the law to process a deer or antelope beyond quarters in camp unless there is a cold storage or processing facility established on the property where hunting occurs.

The definition of a quartered carcass (and this is the only place I found mention of neck/rib meat):
Not more than 2 forequarters, leg portion (down to the knee) attached to the shoulderblade
2 hindquarters (leg bones down to the hock must remain attached); and
2 backstraps/trimmings form neck & rib cage (the boned out neck and rib cage may be discarded)

I've discussed this point with friends in the past - they believe that a game warden could write a ticket for "wanton waste" if you do not have the neck & rib meat and get searched. I disagree.

Note that processing beyond quarters in camp for immediate comsumption is allowed, provided the remaining parts (including proof of sex) are properly tagged.
 

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Where I hunt LLano area the pigs have gotten so bad that the landowner will tell you, "shoot the big boars in the belly and let them run off". Now I will cap them in the ear or eye and then drag them off. I want to ensure a clean kill. This is a cattle ranch as well as a managed deer ranch, exotics and all. ***** are killed and sold. Jackrabbits consume/waste as much grass as cattle. They must die as well.
 

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LOL... That'll be the last time i go to Woody's then come home to get on line. My point I think I was trying to get across. Was the waste. Killing with out a purpose... There was a picture here ( think a while back) with a couple hunters and a mountain of hogs stacked up. Makes for a great photo. doesnt it. If your purpose is to thin heards, eradicate, protect property, bigger antlers, whatever the excuse that lets a person sleep at night., then great.

Why do you think when you go to a gun range(outdoor) in the rules youll find Please dont shoot at animals. Must be cause some people do it for the fun of it. Or is it because the bullet was traveling to slow and the animal walk in front of it.(time to fix up a reload) LOL.

Most people dont hesitate to kill bobcat,cougar, coyote, etc they make a great mount plus theres the endangerment factor(I am being sarcastic here).

If I take something thats just an added bonus. But i garentee if I shoot, it will be table fair. I dont eat dog(coyote),cat(bobs or cougar),skunk, there for I will not shoot them.

TXPalerider- mouse thing was funny due to the fact I use the live traps at the house

Am I out of line- probubly, but I seen way to many people drive around looking for something, anything to shoot.
 

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speckle-catcher said:
I've discussed this point with friends in the past - they believe that a game warden could write a ticket for "wanton waste" if you do not have the neck & rib meat and get searched. I disagree.
QUOTE]

I can guarantee the warden doesn't care if you disagree...and I can promise you a felony is more than just getting a ticket. Speckle, I have been hunting for years and very seldom gutted my deer because I didn't feel like the tenderloins or rib meat was worth messing with vs. guts. Not til last year when it was pointed out to me that I was committing a felony by not doing so. I looked it up in the book and sure enough there it was in black and white. I take it all now.
 

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Re:Hog Heaven

Hogheaven- Sometimes predator/ prey balances get way out of whack. Especially on lands managed for quail and turkey, huge population explosions of bobcats can really be detrimental to your management plan. I call and kill nuisance bobcats from time to time when our scouting shows excessive population explosions. Its not for fun, its a management strategy. And landowners repay me by letting me hunt thier places for deer-turkey-etc. I guess we disagree on this. I eat all deer-turkey-duck-geese-dove-quail, and I kill bobcats and yotes from time to time so I have more critters to eat.
 

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