[kenforu]

Who is getting tired of investing alot of time in a lease only to have it taken from you because someone offers them more money. I am close to giving up hunting because of land owners and their lack of doing the right thing. Tell me your stories. If I thought I could get enough people I would get them together and purchase a track of land and everyone would be a owner and a hunter but I can not figure out how to make it work any suggestions?????????

 

[Syncerus]

You'd have to form a corporation and sell shares. Have everything in writing. Have penalties for non-payment, non-performance. Someone has to be the enforcer / bad guy. This is a "good fences make good neighbors" kind of thing.

Doesn't sound like much fun, does it?

Syncerus

 

[Whitecrow]

I agree with Syncerus. I think with a group ownership thing you'd end up with the same b!tching/griping/complaining you have on a typical group lease......just with no easy way out. Then again, I could never see a boat partnership working, but there are a lot of people who make them work. It would be ALL about the group you put together and how you laid out the agreement and rules.
Also remember that situations change. People get married/divorced, have kids, etc. Remember that when you lay out usage schedules and ownership successions.
Hope it works for you.

 

[gmoney]

ttt

 

[rio frio]

I got tired 3 years ago .bought land and never looked back... same ole bs ... lease a place build it up and the owner sells you out..or somebody dies..or divorce...now I hunt year round....(axis)best move i ever made and my retirement property is paid for....dont get to ride my 4 wheeler as much but ill take the trade.my sugesstion is to buy your property now because the hill country is getting pricey regards david

 

[bad bob]

I recently purchased property with family members via an LLP. You use the operating agreement to establish rules regarding transfer of ownership, financial requirements and usage terms. We also have an annual shareholder meeting were we sit down and vote on harvest guidelines, capital improvements, etc. It's majority rule, based on totals shares outstanding, so it's hard to gripe with the decisions. Admittedly, we have our differences and challenges but overall it works pretty well. One key is to make sure that you are partnered with like minded individuals from the start. You are asking for trouble if 3 guys want to manage for trophy class animals and the 4th is a meat hunter with 6 kids.

 

[El Cazador]

I know of a group guys that leased property for a long time that finally decided that if they could remain partners in a lease, they could sustain a partnership in buying some land. That was about ten years ago and they still own the property together; about 3000 acres (I believe).

Agreed, it would take a special group of guys to make that work. Good luck!

 

[DCW]

I bought my place about 18 years ago. Started with 2 partners. It was my father in law and the other was a good friend. Was is the key. The friend got to where he didn't do much of anything to help out, my father in law was great. The first chance I got I bought out the friend. Then Paw Paw and I ran things together without a hitch until he passed on. Now my wife and I have the whole place and say just what happens there and when it happens. We only have 60 acres but it is enough for us. If you can swing it buy a place all by yourself and save yourself a lot of headaches.

 

[Jtaylor]

The right thing?

Who is getting tired of investing alot of time in a lease only to have it taken from you because someone offers them more money. I am close to giving up hunting because of land owners and their lack of doing the right thing.

Okay, I guess I will be the bad guy with a difference of opinion. If someone offered you a job making twice as much as you are making now, would you accept, or stay with your other job, because it was "the right thing" for your other employer?

"The right thing" for this year, may not be the right thing for next... or the next. A lot of landowners are ranchers... farmers... Their land/cattle/hunting rights are their income.. their livelyhood. They send their kids to college on this income. They pay for medical insurance with this income. They buy food/diesel/utilities/etc... with this income.

Myself, I am a leasor too. And I hate how the price of leases continue to go up. But, I am also a landowner, and pay taxes and insurance on my land. And guess what.. those taxes and insurance rates do go up.

I think we can contribute the escalating price of leases to the shape that this country is in. 20 years ago, a wife could stay at home and raise kids, while the husband earned enough income to provide for the entire family. Today, it's tough to make it with both working. The same thing applies to the farmer/rancher trying to make it without losing the farm. Costs go up and income has to go up with it.

Just my $.02 cents, which isn't worth $.0002 these days...

 

[kenforu]

JTaylor: As far as the job offer the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence it is just a money thing then and not respect and pride to do the right thing. I can agree with your comments but what is very disappointing is that the land owner sees' any offer from someone else and takes it and never goes to the person leasing the property to discuss the increase and offer the property back to the person who has the lease. If you don't make the offer you never know the answer and you as a land owner loose respect and take the risk of having a group who is only interested in killing and wounding animals with no respect for you or the land.

 

[SEtxDUkiller]

Money talks. Times, they are a changin...lol....Inflation and increasing prices are part of life and arent going anywhere. The grass may not be greener on the other side but the stack of $100 bills probably is. Ill take a yard full of money any day.


Taxes on a large parcel of land are outrageous. If you can get enough money from hunters to cover your taxes then you have done well.

 

[kenforu]

is money greater than friendship?

 

[SEtxDUkiller]

Not in my opinion but thats another topic. Are we talking about friendship or paying your bills. A man has to eat wether his friends want him to or not.

 

[bluefin]

I agree on the lease thing to a point. It is about the money but it is also about the stewardship of the land and animals. Tricky balance. After having leased land for years I've personally decided I won't do a deer lease again. I prefer to trophy hunt so leasing is really out of the question. You get on a lease and the other hunters have shot it out or haven't taken care of it. To do it right you have to manage it for 4 to 5 years and by then the property owner wants double for your efforts, which, is his right. I haven't found a prop. owner yet to do a five year lease. Moreover we hunters are our worst enemy. I've been on too many leases and found that for the most part hunters shoot everything in sight once they know they are leaving. Personally I wouldn't hunt with 85% of you reading this b/c 95% of the leases I've had have been so poorly managed by the previous hunters it's almost laughable to read about you complaining. Bad Bob and DCW have the right idea and that is to just buy your own place and manage it yourself. As for myself I have switched to putting in for the big game draws in other states and this year I am going elk hunting in Wyoming (mule deer and antelope draws are in July) and Oryx in New Mexico. I would like to eventually buy some land and I think the corp. plan is the only way to go.

 

[kenforu]

Since I started this thread I have been looking at property and have found some really nice places that have small cabins and electricity with water as well. I am sure that this is the way that I am going to go from now on and then it is mine and all of your comments have been great and well taken. Now it is just finding the right place and location. I have found alot around Garvin store area down to Rocksprings that have from 80-140 acres for around 100,000 thats not to bad.

 

[bluefin]

kenforu,

Just try not to get a place that is surrounded by 20 acre 'friends & family' ranches.

 

[elkhunter49]

Hey Blufin good luck on your Wyoming Elk hunt. Let us know how you
did. Later Baker

 

[ranchpeddler]

ranch buying

I would be very cautious buying around the Rocksprings area Kenforu, you need to be very well versed in issues like anthrax, subdivisions, ag. valuation, etc. There is some great land out there but you need to be extremely careful and do your research. Get a good broker you trust.

 

[huntmaster]

The problem with the defence given for the property owners is that it only applies to a small percentage. The majority of this happaning is with landowners who are not ranchers/famers but businessmen/lawers/bankers etc. that own the land and running it as a business. As far as taxes these people have taken advantange of all of the exemptions and pay next to nothing on the taxes (you can check with the county and find out what they are paying, it is public knowledge). Insurance is not a majore thing either as it runs .08 to .22 cents per acre. They want us to feed, cull and manage it for them for a short time 1-3 yrs and bring on someone else for more money taking advantage of the previous work and effort. then complete this cycle until they can charge $20,000 for a deer and not have to lease. Most of these guys acually cheat the leasee's by continuosly terminating their lease early.

 

[kenforu]

I could not have said it any better huntmaster you hit the nail on the head and for us who are stewards of the land it is getting very frustrating and makes us loose faith in peoples words and beliefs and faith in [eople doing the right thing. But we all move on and if we make the right choice in life we will be paid back 10 fold.