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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 1992 Mako 22' WA that I am thinking of repowering. I have been looking at the prices of new 200 HP outboards with DFI, 4 stroke, 2-stroke EFI and can't believe how much more the DFI and 4 strokes are. I have looked at some boat test data (Yamaha's web site has some good info) and the best I can tell is that the DFI and 4 strokes get about 10%-15% better fuel economy (not 35% that they claim in their advertisements). Based on this info, it would take about 14+ years of gas and oil savings to pay for the more expensive motors. I know about all of the other benefits like lower emissions, noise, etc, but I am making this decision purely on economics.

If any of you have recently repowered from 2 stroke to 2 stroke DFI or 4 stroke, are you seeing any great benefit?

Steve
 

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Not sure about the EFI motors, but I have one boat with an optimax, and one boat with a carboreuted johnson. The optimax gets approximately 40-50% better fuel economy. At $2 a gallon, that is huge. The optimax is even a bigger motor as well, and it still gets better mileage, hp diff is 25.
 

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yep, it IS at least 35% better, trust me. Went from EFI to HPDI, and the economy went from about .8-1.1 mpg for EFI, to 1.8-2.0 mpg for HPDI (twin 200s). The Yamaha 200 HPDI is a good engine, but right now, I don't think I would get near the 250 or 300 until they get all the kinks worked out. Everybody I know who runs four-strokes loves them, and you can add in the savings of no 2 cycle oil for the four strokes also. And to top everything off, as of 2006, you can kiss every technology but HPDI and four stroke goodbye (EPA emissions standards kick in).
 

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Doesn't really matter what happens in 2006. They are not going to take your engine away.

I selected 2 stroke carbed engines when I had the chance recently. Low tech, anyone can work on them, proven technology, and one does not need a computer and a certified technician to run dianostics. Think about your time and replacement parts when considering the economics.

Then again, for my application, range/fuel economy was not a big issue. Personally, I think 4 strokes are being sold mostly based upon hype. 4 stroke engines that can reliably turn 5000 rpm day in and day out are complicated, expensive, and have short lives in within the horsepower range required to propel most decent sized boats. As an example, how long do you think your honda accord would last if you filled the trunk with lead and ran it uphill at 5000 rmp for six hours a day? 2 strokes that can turn 5500 rpm day in and day out are used in a bunch of applications, including boats for the last 30 years.

Just my opinion.
 

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I agree with what has already been said by all. I watched a TV show recently where they did a test on 225 engines of DFI and 4 stroke technology on exact same hulls. Baically, DFI and 4 strokes are similar in fuel economy except at idle and full throttle where 4 strokes are marginally better. 4 Strokes were marginally quieter as well. However, DFI definitely beat 4 stroke on top end speed and time to plane. Not to mention 4 strokes were a little heavier. No question they are both complicated pieces of equipment. All in all, it's personal preference between those two. I think they still have some bugs in marine application of 4 strokes. My $0.02, give me the two stroke any day. Definietly would not go backwards.
 

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As far as time and replacement parts are concerned, almost all new engines have a 2-3 year warranty on the whole engine (lower unit to the power head), with warranty options for a little extra $ up to 5 or even 7 years, depending on the model, thus completely negating the cost for parts and service. Straight carb engines are simpler, cheaper, and easier to maintain, but they are dinosaurs that will be extinct over the next 10 years. Also, something to think about, if you (not a certified technician) do work on your own engine, your warranty is voided. So there are pluses and minuses on both sides, you just have to decide what cost/benefit ratio is best for you. If its a straight fuel consumption issue, go with the dfi or four stroke. If the sticker shock is too much, go with a carb. engine.
 

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I love my HPDIs. I had OX66s on the boat before and they were fine. The HPDIs gave me hell for the first 100 hours, but are awesome now. It went from burning 34 gph to 23 gph. They also do not burn any oil compared to the old motors. It's all personal preference
 

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I have been told by some dealers that the Evinrude optimax gets the best gas milage of all I just bought a Carburated 150 Yamaha 2 cycle simply because I thought it was the best for the money..On the Yamaha they said I would need to go to the 4 cycle to improve anything..
 

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I repowered from a Merc 225 EFI to a 225 Optimax and my milage went from .9-1.1mpg to 1.3-1.5mpg. That's about a 40% increase.
 

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It all depends on how far you want to go !!!

if long offshore run's are in the picture ...Yes new Tech is key if your simply
tooling around the Bay or lakes save your money!!!

if Quiet and no emmisions is not something your looking for !!
then new tech is your friend !!!!


John
 

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I have Suzuki 250 4 Strokes on a 29' WA and hardly ever run over 4000 rpm @32 MPH. Plenty fast for me and the motors aren't working very hard at all. Tops out at over 5500 rpm but never get close to that. No smell, no noise, and 1.0-1.4 fully loaded.

George
 

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tall1fin
go out to your truck and start it up and push the accelerator down and rev motor up to 4000 rpm and tell me that is isn't working hard. if those of us with big 4 strokes could cruise about 2000rpms our motors would last a lot longer. i do enjoy the lower noise levels and no 2 stroke oil and smell. i will however buy an extended warranty at the end of my 3 years of factory warranty. i however believe that injecting fuel under high pressure is not the answer to the issue either and those engines will not hold up for the long haul.....rick
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Rick...

I think that you have hit to the heart of my dilemma. My main concern is reliability more than fuel economy since I only have one motor and a kicker. What I keep asking myself is it really worth a considerable amount more money for extra economy and risking a failure. It might be great to have the extra range, but not if the motor fails 75 miles offshore. I would rather pack extra gas and have a more reliable motor. My Merc has given me no problems and runs strong. It is just starting to get old and it is starting to have some corrosion issues. I wonder if these newer motors will be as good when they are 14 years old.

Thanks for all ya'lls input, but I think I'll stick with what I know and go with the 2-stroke. Now I just gotta find me a good deal.

Steve
 

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mcgolfer said:
tall1fin
go out to your truck and start it up and push the accelerator down and rev motor up to 4000 rpm and tell me that is isn't working hard.
Alot of that has to do with how it's camed. Put your 2stroke in neutral and rev it up to 4000 rpms and it will sound like it's about to explode also.

I'm going through the same delima and found some good comparisons on the evinrude sight. I don't know why they have the comparisons with the yamaha 4 stroke and hpdi since yamaha beat them in almost setup, although the Evinrude did seem to get better speed results.
 

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My $.02.
The more complicated the machine the more to go wrong and more it cost to repair. Fuel economy does not offset the total cost of operation over an extended period of time.
Go with a two stroke and buy a fuel bladder to extend your range.
 

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More or less it boils down to how much do you use your boat? Another way to look at it is After owning a fuel injected car would you be willing to switch back to a carb. I know I'm tired of worring about my carbs gumming up "premix" especially after what it just did to my last motor. On the other hand I had a carbed motor on my last boat and never had a problem with it.
 

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Comparing your boat engine to a car engine is probably not the most accurate. In addition, if the 4 strokes didn't hold up well, then why do they have the longest warranties. Finally, unless you drive your boat 30 minutes each way back and forth to work every day, like you do your car, using your example, your boat motors would last about 100 years.
 

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I have a pair of '98 Merc 150 carbed motors. I pay $1.20 for spark plugs and change them once a year whether they need it or not. I've changed the impellers once. I get 1.5 mpg pushing a 24 foot boat weighing around 6000 pounds when loaded unless its slick and the mileage goes up to as good as 1.8. I have the offshore safety of an extra motor. The motors have never been in a shop since the 20 hour dealer checkup. If these motors ever need to be repowered, I can do it for less money than a single 250+ HP DI or 4-stroke. OK, I wish I had more range, I wish I had less noise, I wish I got 4 mpg, I wish I had less emissions and smoke. But this rig fits my budget, personality, and it gets me there and back. At present prices, there are no 4-strokes or DI 2-strokes in my future.
 
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