2 Cool Fishing Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,853 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For all those pushing "the fishing experience" and those wanting "sector separation and accountability", here's how we can easily work our way into a 0 day possession season. Unfortunately for Mr. Jarvis and his group, it's not the evil private rec that's doing it this time. For what it's worth, Captain Stanton is one of the good guys out there in my own book, just based on the way he has treated me when we have crossed paths in the past. This was in Saturdays' paper here.

Capt. Paul Stanton, Aqua Safari Charters, found Friday to be a beautiful day with calm seas when he took the Ryan Mossman party of four offshore.

Fishing 30 miles out, Mossman, along with Chris Bridgford, Ron Fulenchek and John Boley, caught and released 40 bull reds to 42 inches, 63 red snapper to 29 inches, two triggerfish, three blacktip sharks and a 35-pound jackfish. The only fish retained was a Spanish mackerel.

Spanish sardines were the bait, and Ronnie Cline was the first mate.
Just doing a little math, 63 red snapper thrown back at 50% mortality is 31.5 dead fish. That's a 15.75 man limit under the 2009 limits. Or taking it another way, that's a 4 trip limit for the 4 guys on board, in just one trip. But, the kicker is those fish never saw an ice chest, they were released, just like the law says.

Regulatory discard = to the rec TAC with the result ending in a 0 fish possession limit year around? I believe it can happen. In fact, I believe it will.
 

·
Tiny is Gone... Hi, My Name is ROGER
Joined
·
5,886 Posts
If we don't kill 'em by putting them on Ice, we'll just kill half of them by obeying the law. Sounds pretty reasonable and smart to me!
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
6,013 Posts
snapper

Mont,
Spot on.

Here's a quote from the Vision 2020 paper which looks to be the outline that the regulators are reading from;

By 2020 continued growth in recreational angling will require that anglers focus more on the fishing experience and less on the number of fish landed. However, while post-release mortality in catch and release fisheries is usually low (often 2-5 percent), as fishing effort increases, post-release mortality will become an increasing proportion of total mortality. It is conceivable that the cumulative total of post-release mortality could increase to levels equal to the total allowable mortality for a fishery.

This is another way to say what Mont said; Regulatory discard = to the rec TAC with the result ending in a 0 fish possession limit year around.

I do believe however, there is hope in the fact that there has never been a study regarding the number of inshore fishermen targeting the number of inshore species relative to the number of offshore fishermen targeting the number of offshore species. There is exponentially-more pressure pressure on inshore fish, with exponentially-less available habitat than offshore species, yet the bag limits/seasons are exponentially higher. If there were to be a study of this sort, by independent researchers (independent of the NMFS), I believe it would show the ludicrousness of what the regulators are trying to pull off relative to the offshore fisheries.

All the best,
Tom
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,569 Posts
Doug Olander wrote about release weights recently in Sport Fishing magazine (article title - Dead Fish Swimming.) Right here at home, Harte Institute at Corpus Christi (Dr. McKinney and Dr. Stunz) are organizing a study using release weights, underwater cams (post release) and radio tagging to determeine post-release mortality. We'll know soon whether release weights could help reduce/eliminate regulatory discard mortality of demersal fish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,939 Posts
Small limits and seasons in fed waters are here to stay as far as I can see it..they have just been "slowly easing us into it"..We Texas recs should start concentrating on something that we can control(fishery/government) in our own state waters .....inshore habitat construction seams to me to be the only solution for the future MW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,424 Posts
Something is weird here. You'd have to be insane to report all your throw-back fish, as then the NMFS could assign some arbitrary kill rate and count that against your quota - even if it is zero. Unless there is an observer or LEO around, I'd say we didn't catch a darn thing. Be that as it may, people will report fish catches and throwbacks and even shark cut-offs.

So if I understand what Mont is saying, you could end up with negative fish. I have a problem trying to envision what a negative fish must look like. Gosh, I wonder is Uncle Sam can pay me to farm some negative red snapper. "Well you can't see them, but we got 'em!"

In other words, if the TAC is zero, and somebody catches a few thousand fish, that over-age is counted towards the next year's TAC, which in this case might be minus 1,000. In order for the species to recover, you need to overcome however much you're in the hole, and the population must grow must faster than it already is - a sometimes almost impossible task.

Heckuva way to run a railroad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
I have read some research regarding release of snapper into cages where mortality was actually very low for barotrama. Flipper however did not get factored into those numbers. Depth was the single most contributing factor.
Survival rates were 99%, 90%, and 56% for fish captured at depths of 21-24 m, 27-30 m, and 37-40 m
So unless they are reporting what depth they are catching the fish at, NMFS shouldn't use the 50% mortality numbers.

Mont are you implying we should impose a first fish rule?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
This has gotten out of hand. The nmfs don't have a clue about how many snapper are out in the gulf. When i was back from Iraq in April myself and some friends went offshore, and we couldn't keep the snapper off our jigs.

to make more habitat in state waters would be great. I read some where there is a proposed barrier reef system for state waters. Dose anyone have in updates on that?

I'm looking forward to coming back in 40days, but this stuff is crazy. I would like to be able to put some fish in the boat. I hope they don't do like they did to th east coast guys. shut down all bottom fishing because you will catch snapper trying to get to the other fish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
I think some people are trying to fight it. But from the last thing i heard they shut down snapper fishing on the east coast along with bottom fishing
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,853 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sammie, insane or not, if we are legally required to report our catch, you can bet your last piece of squid, that throwback reporting will be required.

Rodwade, I don't have it at my fingertips, but there's newer information out about release mortality that shows it higher than before. I just used the 50% number as an illustration since it's pretty easy for most folks to understand. From memory, I seem to recall numbers as high as 70% release mortality in the newer study.

As for shutting down "fishing", NMFS is going to have a tough time of that in light of this whole "fishing experience" rainbow of fun we are supposed to be having doing C&R.

I will once again go on record saying these rules are doing more harm than good for our prized fish. Of course, flipper will disagree with me :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,424 Posts
I don't know, Mont, you sure seem right in what you say ... but my daddy taught me that if you take up a gun or even a fishing pole, you'd better take the responsibility for killing something. Well I think I was taught right, you tell me.

As to C&R mortality, that depends on so many variables I don't know if I trust any. Not only are there predators such as sharks and dolphins, but depth and how fast you pull up a fish and how long the fight is ... and for some reason, sometimes a perfectly normal fish with die alongside the boat like it had a heart attack or something. It's much more complicated than just counting floaters and fish that sunk to the bottom.

Don't they know it is a violation of the Marine Mammal Act to feed the dolphin? Many dolphin have become so dependent on fishing boats and shrimpers that they can hardly forage for fish themselves. Just listen for the propellers ... the new dinner bell of the sea.
 

·
sea monkey rancher
Joined
·
18,403 Posts
looks like they port out of Galv., so maybe the spot was fairly shallow and the fish made it, but don't see why you would do that to 60 fish for grins.......much less post it.......unless you were going for a line classs record.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Habitat, habitat, habitat

Small limits and seasons in fed waters are here to stay as far as I can see it..they have just been "slowly easing us into it"..We Texas recs should start concentrating on something that we can control(fishery/government) in our own state waters .....inshore habitat construction seams to me to be the only solution for the future MW
I had the pleasure of joining Hilton and crew last week placing 5 new reefs in Texas state waters. These guys are commited. They put their money were there mouth is and are doing something to enhance our fishery. Brovo ReefMan!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Are these being lowered down and placed upright, or are they dropped down and hope for the best? Does a diver go down and hook a line up to right them? Just curious if they are being put in vertical manner or just however they land.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,287 Posts
Hence the very forward looking comments from years past that we should not be pimping high capture/release mortality. Thats cause, if we can't get first X fish rules, then that very same data will be used to reduce the TAC.

Now, its potentially coming home to roost. No surprise there.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,853 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Are these being lowered down and placed upright, or are they dropped down and hope for the best? Does a diver go down and hook a line up to right them? Just curious if they are being put in vertical manner or just however they land.
Tom puts a piece of 600 pound mono attached to a 36" mooring buoy on the top. The mono breaks just as the buoy goes underwater, which makes them land upright.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,853 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hence the very forward looking comments from years past that we should not be pimping high capture/release mortality. Thats cause, if we can't get first X fish rules, then that very same data will be used to reduce the TAC.

Now, its potentially coming home to roost. No surprise there.
Actually, we could be legally required to provide the data that gets the TAC lowered, Ernesto ;) The new hottest thing to have will be a glass bottom insert on your boat so you can at least see what a fish looks like.
 

·
23' Sea Ox/200 hpdi
Joined
·
3,118 Posts
Actually, we could be legally required to provide the data that gets the TAC lowered, Ernesto ;) The new hottest thing to have will be a glass bottom insert on your boat so you can at least see what a fish looks like.
I think that Cabela's is selling some computer programs where we can virtually fish for snapper. Open up a new tab and order some commercially caught fillets on-line. Might just make everyone's life a whole lot easier. sad3sm
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top