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Good Flounder Wade Gone Bad...

21K views 70 replies 35 participants last post by  tracker17  
#1 · (Edited)
Went to one of my favorite spots this morning with my son to find some nice flatties. Thought it would be good with the small cold front that just passed. We got there and the tide was real low. We were pleasantly surprised to find three keeper flounder shallow then the bite stopped all of a sudden. We couldn't figure it out since we knew if we had three in 30 minutes that there were more for sure. So we waded a bit farther down from our spot to try and entice a bite where the current was moving a bit faster. We saw a pipe sticking up out of the water a bit further up so we waded to it and it was a #$%^ GILL NET!!! The net was tied to the pipe and was probably anchored to some rocks nearby.
Now we knew why the flounder were not where they should have been. We pulled the net up to the flats and counted 40 flounder dead or dying tangled in the mess. We managed to save maybe 2 out of four we cut loose but they didn't swim far away as they looked almost dead.
Nothing makes me more angry than to see this #%$^ happening where I and others fish often. Made my son and I sick to our stomachs to see this.
To think that all 40 of those flounder would have made it to our spot for us to catch and cull but they got stopped by that net set by a poacher. That is the part that really ticked me off. It ruined a perfectly good wade...
We called the game warden right away and he came out about 30 minutes later and dragged the net to the shore and burned it with the flounder. I was told I could get a reward if they catch the scum that did it. I just want them to get caught and stop!
Got this video and some pictures...be warned...it is sickening to see...

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Video 2:

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#16 ·
Two thoughts on this. These guys are extremely brash. Setting gill nets in some of the most heavily fished areas on the coast like SWP and SLP? They are just begging for jail time, heavy fines and losing a truck. 40 flounder at roughly 3 pounds a piece is 120 pounds total. Going rate is 3.00 to 3.50 a pound for a total haul of roughly 400.00? Certainly not worth the risk in my book.

Secondly it looks like the stocks are extremely healthy and I think I would pass on the crowds at SWP for a little more room at SLP.
 
#17 ·
Let's write a story:

So if you were setting a gill net, would you wait until daylight to tend it? Of course not. These days, the chance of someone seeing and identifying you are too close to 100%. So why was this one still in the water the next day?

There are lots of possiblel reasons, but the most likely to me is that it's a small-ish jon boat, and the cold front made it too rough to get back out to their net. It also makes me think it had been there for a couple of nights - back before the front hit. So they probably planned to go tend the net on Saturday night, and the front came in sooner than they expected? Or maybe they just drank too much beer and fell asleep.

So where's the nearest place that someone would likely launch a crappy little jon boat, to run dark to this location? If I lived in your neck of the woods, that's where I'd keep an eye out. Especially if you're getting on the water way before dawn. I don't think they would take time on the water to empty and untangle that net, so they would just haul it loaded into the boat. That's a hard thing to disguise.

If you're launching in this area, and see a boat coming in when he ought to be going out, be a little nosy. If you have a CHL, it might also be a good idea to be prepared.

Much as I hate to say it, the lack of flounder boats at night makes it easier for these guys to sneak around. Maybe gill nets take less flounder overall than a bunch of flounder boats would? But I really, really hate gill nets.
 
#21 ·
I will go with this scenario.

I don't think they even needed a boat. Looks like the GW just rolled up in his truck pulled it in and disposed of it.

The sum bags probably did not even have a boat. Just rolled up in their beat up truck waded out a short piece of gill net. Proceeded to get drunk the rest of the night and did not even have the discipline to get up and get out of dodge with their loot.
 
#23 ·
One sure way to stop it...has nothing to do with enforcement or catching perps. There will be a big outcry and some pushback at first but all it would take would be removing the profit opportunity....ban the sale of flounder....just like redfish and trout.

The gig season is closed and the commercially available fresh whole flounder to the restaurant trade has probably been exhausted. Those small nets are not the tools of large scale operators, more the type of "ghost net" you'd expect in a well-travelled place deployed for very short periods planning to make small-quick catches. The back door price to a restaurant that'll play the game right now is probably way higher than when gig season is open. Quick way to grab several hundred $$ for a quicky net set and there will always be somebody willing to take the risk.

Ban the commercial sale and the problem fixes itself!
 
#25 ·
One sure way to stop it...has nothing to do with enforcement or catching perps. There will be a big outcry and some pushback at first but all it would take would be removing the profit opportunity....ban the sale of flounder....just like redfish and trout.

The gig season is closed and the commercially available fresh whole flounder to the restaurant trade has probably been exhausted. Those small nets are not the tools of large scale operators, more the type of "ghost net" you'd expect in a well-travelled place deployed for very short periods planning to make small-quick catches. The back door price to a restaurant that'll play the game right now is probably way higher than when gig season is open. Quick way to grab several hundred $$ for a quicky net set and there will always be somebody willing to take the risk.

Ban the commercial sale and the problem fixes itself!
Would not be effective. Most of the flounder sold in Texas comes from Louisiana or other states on the east coast that still have commercial netting operations. You can't prohibit legitimate intrastate commerce. How would we tell a flounder caught in Texas from one in Louisiana?

Plus it just adds needless unenforceable paperwork to legitimate harvesters, retail markets and Restaurants.

There is always going to be bad apples you don't punish legitimate operators because of few ******** or illegals trying to make a quick buck.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Catchy - You are correct on all counts, but how much speckled trout and red drum commercial trade do you find being conducted in Texas? Not very darn much!

Oh you'll see some farmed red drum product occasionally and just every once in a while maybe some speckled trout trucked in via a major/national wholesale seafood company, caught and processed in a state where it's still legal. Flounder is a whole other situation because the commerce is legal!

As for the product entering Texas from other states, the folks handling/selling must keep their paperwork trail pretty darn tidy.

How often do you see speckled trout and redfish featured on restaurant menus? It'd go over about as well as a fart in church!
 
#30 ·
EJ@TSFMag,

I guess Landry's smells like farts in church! Blackened Redfish and Trout Almandine has been a staple of restaurants up and down the Gulf Coast for decades

We have plenty of regulations in place. Gill nets, limited entry programs. Outlawing the commercial take on flounder will just drive up the price and make it more tempting for outlaws to make a quick buck.

Kind of like the war on drugs.

Blackened Redfish with Crawfish Etouffee$23.99
Blackened redfish with rice and asparagus.

http://www.grubhub.com/restaurant/landrys-seafood-house-1212-lake-robbins-dr-the-woodlands/230760
 
#32 ·
One would think and hope the source is a legally operating legitimate supplier.

But the bottom line is regulation does not keep redfish, trout or flounder off of local menus. Outlawing a commercial take in Texas won't keep incidents like this from happening, most likely it will drive the price up making incidents like this more common.

The key to stopping outlaws like this is not more needless and unenforceable regulation that does nothing more than drive the cost for local restaurants which will be passed on down to the consumer.

It's more enforcement and programs like operation game thief.
 
#33 ·
Just to make sure you all understood...I called the game warden FIRST upon finding the net. That is what you are REQUIRED to do. The GW asks first for tags or markers as THEY sometimes put nets out themselves. (bet some of you didn't know that).
Since no markings, the GW told me I could pull it up and throw them all in the nearest trash dumpster on the beach and they would dispose of it since there were no markings or tags to identify who placed it. I told him I didn't want to drag it 300 yds to the beach as it was heavy with all the dead flounder and I was loaded with gear and he said he would just come out and burn them. No problem. He was happy to help and I was too.
They get this information from the caller and they tell them what to do next. I do not recommend touching or moving a criminal violation until you speak directly to the authorities. They in turn direct you as a good angler what to do to help.
Hope this clarifies for those that misunderstood or had no experience in dealing with crimes the Game Warden handles.
You can read more at the TPWD website and hand books.
 
#34 ·
Catchy - No comment as regards the source of said red drum and speckled trout fillets that appear on Texas restaurant menus, except to hope it is all legally obtained. Commercial landings of red drum and speckled trout are very tightly controlled with very small (almost inconsequential) landings, even in states where it is legal. Fact is, speckled trout are increasingly rare as menu items and while red drum is common in some venues it is very difficult to imagine these are wild-caught. Aquaculture! Goggle some commercial landings data and you will see what I mean.

But, back to the original topic of illegal take of southern flounder in Texas, you are an old or ex-commercial fisherman, exactly how effective would you truthfully expect additional enforcement effort might be? Shared-use fisheries, especially as pertains to flounder in Texas, is destines to become a thing of the past as commercial participation dwindles.

Look at the facts - how many commercial finfish licenses still exist and how many are being used for flounder? I have friends who are commercial flounder fishermen. They are regulated to only 30 fish per day during a ten and a half month season, and how many days of those months can they actually get 30, or any number that justifies the effort for that matter? The answer for the guys determined to hang on is to get a recreational fishing guide license and run rec flounder gigging trips. These guys are already excellent watermen and they know better than anybody where/how/when to get flounder. Put three or four recs on the boat and make $500+ per night plus tips! Beats heck out of commercial gigging in my book and likely theirs too!
 
#35 ·
I can promise you the trout almondine in any restaurant isn't local, wild caught. If it was, it would be twice the price.

As for the red fish, I'd bet most of it is tilapia. Some estimates say that 80% of the fish you get in restaurants is misidentified. Probably because no one in the food chain - the guy who grows or catches it, the wholesaler, the restaurant - have any interest what so ever in not making the sale.
 
#36 · (Edited)
EJ@TSFMag

The commercial catch of flounder is small probably less than a 100 guys actively targeting flounder. And their yearly take was probably just reduced by 30% with the outlawing of gigging in November and 1/2 of December the heart of the fall migration.

As you point out the commercial landings are small some would say inconsequential. So what benefit is it making restaurants and fish markets jump through more needless paperwork that just drives up costs to the consumer for a relatively small result if any. Long story short lots more needless regulation for little to no gain from a fisheries management standpoint. The worst possible kind of regulation.

Secondly there is a license buyback program in place to retire these licenses slowly over time that offers an incentive to leave the industry vs. forcing them out via regulation with nothing to show for their lives work.

It's worked great for the shrimp, crab and finish industries, lets let it keep working. I for one would not like to see my industry regulated out of existence with nothing to show for it.
 
#44 ·
EJ@TSFMag

The commercial catch of flounder is small probably less than a 100 guys actively targeting flounder. And their yearly take was probably just reduced by 30% with the outlawing of gigging in November and 1/2 of December the heart of the fall migration.
Assuming you are correct -- how about flounders caught as a by-catch? I observe boats dragging nets in GSC every flounder run every year...

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