2 Cool Fishing Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 65 Posts

·
I once killed two stones with one bird..
Joined
·
689 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've got a question. Why is it that the state had to step in and make this rule?? Why were landowners/hunters not able to do so on their own land?? Is it because the "other guy across the fence" is always to blame?? I'm not disputing whether the rule works or not. I don't care. Shooting a 13" 8 pt is not much different than shooting a 12" 8 pt in my opinion, or a 8" 6pt. If those extra 5" of antler score make your shorts move, good for you. I'm asking strictly from a personal property rights angle. Guess I view it kinda like deed restrictions, which I vehemently oppose, except the 13" rule wasn't a rule when I signed on the dotted line. Maybe I just have a problem with authority? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,880 Posts
I've got a question. Why is it that the state had to step in and make this rule?? Why were landowners/hunters not able to do so on their own land?? Is it because the "other guy across the fence" is always to blame?? I'm not disputing whether the rule works or not. I don't care. Shooting a 13" 8 pt is not much different than shooting a 12" 8 pt in my opinion, or a 8" 6pt. If those extra 5" of antler score make your shorts move, good for you. I'm asking strictly from a personal property rights angle.
Because deer do not stay on one piece of property.... they travel on multiple properties and without a standard rule, any management attempt would fail.

I wish the 13" rule were just a stepping stone and that in 3-4 more years, they would add another inch.... then repeat again....

But, there is not another body part to compare the spread with besides the ears.... So I think it will stay 13".

It also makes it easier on game law enforcement. If you standardize everything, you dont have to do research as to what property has what game regulations. All the deer shot in that county are required to meet the same requirements.

Basically, the same reason why they set bag limits on deer per county....

If you start allowing property owners to make their own rules like that, it would be utter chaos.... I know many folks that would shoot every deer that they saw if they could... not sure why, but thank goodness they cant.
 

·
TxDuSlayer
Joined
·
4,770 Posts
It also helps those 1 1/2 old deer make it thru the season adding some age to the deer herd. Slows down some of that "Its brown its going down mentality".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
631 Posts
I've got a question. Why is it that the state had to step in and make this rule?? Why were landowners/hunters not able to do so on their own land?? Is it because the "other guy across the fence" is always to blame?? I'm not disputing whether the rule works or not. I don't care. Shooting a 13" 8 pt is not much different than shooting a 12" 8 pt in my opinion, or a 8" 6pt. If those extra 5" of antler score make your shorts move, good for you. I'm asking strictly from a personal property rights angle. Guess I view it kinda like deed restrictions, which I vehemently oppose, except the 13" rule wasn't a rule when I signed on the dotted line. Maybe I just have a problem with authority? :)
To make a long story short...In the traditional one buck counties (i.e. Colorado, Lavaca, Jackson, etc.), people would shoot the first set of horns they saw. The average age of bucks taken was right around the 2 year mark. So, the new restrictions were put into place to help increase the overall age of bucks in those counties. FYI, I know a lot of people who hunt in the first counties to implement the AR and everyone of them have seen very positive results, w/ the largest buck taken on each of their places being larger each year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,486 Posts
I've got a question. Why is it that the state had to step in and make this rule?? Why were landowners/hunters not able to do so on their own land?? Is it because the "other guy across the fence" is always to blame?? I'm not disputing whether the rule works or not. I don't care. Shooting a 13" 8 pt is not much different than shooting a 12" 8 pt in my opinion, or a 8" 6pt. If those extra 5" of antler score make your shorts move, good for you. I'm asking strictly from a personal property rights angle. Guess I view it kinda like deed restrictions, which I vehemently oppose, except the 13" rule wasn't a rule when I signed on the dotted line. Maybe I just have a problem with authority? :)
Uh, Crow - deer aren't your property. Your yard is. Big difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
13" rule question

This rule is probably put in for the same reason as to why they changed up the way we have to do our license and tagging that is to give us more ways to fail, all about making money for TP&W, and according to Mitch Lockwood of the TP&W this 13" rule has nothing to do with antler quality(pg 96 of the outdoor annual) they say we just need to get our deer age up. all I know is where the antlers get bigger then so does the lease dues. My complaint about it is that if I wanted to shoot a wider antlered animal then I would go to south Texas to hunt, I am happy shooting my 11.5" to 15" bucks with out having to worry about being fined cause he was only 12.5" I don"t need someone telling me what a trophy buck is. Land owners will be making more money.
 

·
lay zay lay bon tom roo lay
Joined
·
467 Posts
I think the 13" rule has more to do with balancing back the bucks from some counties that had 1 buck 2 doe restrictions. Many hunters, hunted for the trophy and as the season went along shot the first thing with antlers. (just my guess)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
i still havent decided if i like the rule, why does the state care how old the deer on MY property are? and some deer will never be 13" and if my grandpa is hunting on his place in east texas where deer are never seen and a 6 point walks our i want him to be able to shoot it just my opinion
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
i still havent decided if i like the rule, why does the state care how old the deer on MY property are? and some deer will never be 13" and if my grandpa is hunting on his place in east texas where deer are never seen and a 6 point walks our i want him to be able to shoot it just my opinion
After a few years under the 13" rule, grandpa will be seeing more and better
deer on his place...also the deer on YOUR property do not belong to you,
they belong to the state.

All deer killed before they are 13" wide will never be 13" wide...

The age structure of a deer herd is one of the most important factors in the health of the herd. Contrary to popular opinion in E Texas, one buck
cannot breed more than 2-3 does per season. A secondary rut due to all
does not being bred during the primary rut is a sure sign of an unhealthy herd. Mortality of late born fawns is much higher than that of fawns that
were conceived during the primary rut.

If 50-60% of 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 year old bucks are harvested every year, the
herd will never expand enough for grandpa to see deer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,880 Posts
i still havent decided if i like the rule, why does the state care how old the deer on MY property are? and some deer will never be 13" and if my grandpa is hunting on his place in east texas where deer are never seen and a 6 point walks our i want him to be able to shoot it just my opinion
1) Because the deer on your land travel past your boundaries.

2) the state is basing its rules and regulations the best way possible. You cant teach every hunter in the state how to age a deer on the hoof, however, every person can tell whether a bucks antlers are wider than its ears.... Racks wider than 13" are statistically older aged deer. There are some exceptions, but dont forget, its works both ways... There are deer running around that are 1.5 years old that are already 13"+.... Both are not the majority, but its the best rule of thumb that can be put into place based on research.

3) the 13" rule shows its successfulness in just a few short years... Many people have already seen how good its working... If your grandpa lets the 6 point pass, then he is essentially increasing his deer population AND the quality of deer on his property....

Im not sure why everybody is so worried about this regulation.... it can not HURT the deer herd at all.... and TPWD doesnt just pull these rules out of their assses... There are YEARS of research involved before a decision like this is made....

I personally was tired of people dragging up 1.5 year old 4 points and 6 points at my place.... "You cant eat antlers" they always say.... THEN SHOOT A DOE!!!
 

·
I once killed two stones with one bird..
Joined
·
689 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I personally was tired of people dragging up 1.5 year old 4 points and 6 points at my place.... "You cant eat antlers" they always say.... THEN SHOOT A DOE!!!
I guess this is the part I don't understand. If YOU don't want 1.5 year old deer shot on YOUR place, then don't shoot 'em. Make a lease rule that nothing under 13" is to be shot. I just don't understand why everybody wrings their hands and says "those guys are killing small deer so I better before they do" and asks the state to do something (which is how the rule came about, by the way).
You are also assuming that everybody thinks a 15" 8pt that scores 90" is way more desirable than a 12" 8pt that scores 70".
Enjoying the conversation so far.
 

·
Make America Great Again!!!
Joined
·
2,173 Posts
Since the rule has gone into effect we have seen MORE BIGGER antlered deer. Now we pass up the 13-15" deer for the most part. HOPING we get a shot at a bigger one.
I am not sure if it has anything to do with the 13" rule, or if it's just a coincidence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
13" question

There is really no dought the rule will be evective for getting the deer older and with larger antlers but the problem i have is I really don't like being told what i can and can't shoot if people are bringing in small deer maybe the lease you are on needs to set some of their own rules and kick people off if they don't obide by them not fine me because i shoot a 12.5" buck that i liked. I am really just about maxed out on what i can pay for a lease and within a couple years watch the price go up because all the nice bucks being taken. it is just a way to get more money for the big land owners. this law will increase the outlaws.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
1. you dont know how much property he has those deer may not ever leave the property.
2. its not that he wants to eat the horns you just rarely see deer there if it was a doe he would shoot it.
3. like i said in the first post its my opinion, yall are no more an expert on the subject than i am
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Another point is that in the original counties the family ranches have been getting divided more and more with each generation. No you have numerous small plots(50 acres and below) with each one having a different mindset towards harvesting deer. This is the only way to manage the herd. The co-ops started things in the right direction but the 13" rule was the silver bullet.
 

·
good looking single member
Joined
·
6,603 Posts
Nope," wringing hands saying I better shoot it before they do", is NOT what TPWD wrote the rule for. And yes I know ;). Heres what went down behind the scenes. Think about this Crow, what is a land owner wanted to shoot 4-7 pintail hens? Why should everyone follow the rules on waterfowl and not limmit it different from lake to lake? Like said before deer can move over 20 miles per radio studies. Like said before deer move mile and miles. Also someone "who does not know" said it's for someone to make a mistake, LOL I knew the shortbus stopped here sometimes. No, it's goes back to conservation and the heard, the 13" rule was the BEST and EASIEST way for a NOVICE hunter/JRdeer ager to age or harvest a mature buck. The debate was at that time on how to judge a mature buck on the hoof. You can throw all the other ways in BUT this was the COOKIE CUTTER easiest. This was and may have slowed the harvest on bucks in the first 2 years in the few counties the first 1-2 years but it worked. I know,,,,,,, yes I know and read the "SCORE AND AGE PLEASE" threads and see the guesses on age but I have been with TPWD BIO's aging deer and learned that you can guess all you want but the jaw will always be right. Now some say FAT SWOLLEN Neck, Swayed Back, Mass, Roman Nose etc does not work 50% of the time because of genetics, drought, browse, weight gain and loss, disease etc. This is something you have to look at the whole pic. to understand. Now that we have had this rule work for us in West TX and My hunt grounds here in East TX it works. Besides who like shooting little deer? From one waterfowl guy to another LOL shooting small bucks is like a limmit of bluebills:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
I'm still undecided if I like the rule or not. I see what the state is trying to do to promote older more mature bucks. Only thing I see where it could be a problem is were the genetics are particular for a certain area where the spreads don't get wide. Or your trying to get the basket racks off of your property or lease.

A friend of mine killed a 10 point buck out east of baytown last year that was 4 1/2 that was 12.5 wide, but had 13 in g2's. Would the deer get wider? He told me all the deer he sees on the property he's hunting has the same type genetics.
 

·
Raiser of BOB White Quail
Joined
·
19,039 Posts
B4Bait its such a touchy subject. I can't change the rules or either can you . So I just abide by the rules. To tell you the truth it all depends on where you hunt. I hope the rules work for future generations. Only time will tell. So lets just go hunting & be happy we can.
 

·
A.K.A. Jacob's dad
Joined
·
2,443 Posts
And the dead horse continues to get beat.
 

·
good looking single member
Joined
·
6,603 Posts
Now Here is the rule passed down, If the antlers are even with the ears in alert position the deer is leagal. 12.5 would pass, they will not hold you to 13 exact. 13" was a base point but the ears " at alert pos." is the rule.
 
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top