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Probably shouldn't go here, but WTH!!

7K views 87 replies 44 participants last post by  Kyle 1974 
#1 ·
OK, let me start by saying that I'm all about hunting. My life revolves around the sport, as it is not only my passion for my so called "spare time" but also how I make my living and support my family. No, I'm not an outfitter or a big-game ranch owner or manager. I work in the field of Wetlands Conservation Engineering. I grew up hunting not only waterfowl along the Texas coast but also deer in the East Texas Piney Woods. Now for the point of this thread.

I am constantly seeing pics of deer that are followed by comments that suggest taking a particular buck out because you certainly don't want him spreading his genes around to the does. Believe me, I understand the science of manipulating traits with geneology. I just have an issue with, ok, I'll go ahead and say it........"playing GOD" with these animals that are a wild, natural resource that belong to EVERYONE, not just those that can afford to high-fence their 10,000 acre private petting zoo! OK, so he may only 3 on the left, so he's not gonna get your name in the B&C, or whatever the latest scoring craze is this season, KILL HIM!!! We certainly don't want him to breed, that would result in more deer for future generations that may not be PERFECTLY SYMETRICAL! So what!!!??? I got a bum knee, should I have been "taken out" so that I wouldn't have offspring who may possibly have bad knees?????..................or poor eyesight?????...............or be succeptable to heart disease?????

There was also an earlier post that reported the sale of a particular buck for $600,000! For a supposedly "wild" animal!!!

Let's see, you build hundreds upon hundreds of miles of fence to keep them on your property, feed them an incredibly scientificly developed and balanced diet of grains and supplements, inventory and eartag them for identification, tranquilize them for the purposes of diagnosing and medicating them, artificially inseminate them so that you can grow bigger, heavier and "better" animals.............sound vaugely familiar to anyone?................................kinda like the cattle industry maybe??????????????

If someone wants to dedicate their life and fortune to breeding some kind of "SUPER BUCK" within the confines of their private, high-fenced little so-called "wilderness" then I don't guess there's really much at all that can be said or done about that. But I have proble when you start trying to do the same with "MY" deer, or "MY" ducks, or "MY" fish, or who knows, maybe even "MY" kids or grandkids! It just ain't right to me!

OK, sorry for the rant, but I had to vent or I was gonna flip out!

Mods, please remove this thread and accept my apologies for posting it if ya'll see necessary.
 
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#7 ·
Triple..I agree with you man!!!

I was just making a comment about deer genetics last week. I just don't think you can screw with genetics THIS MUCH, and not end up with some negative side effects. The only thing that deer "geneticists" are looking at, is horn size. With the sales of breeder buck deer semen rivaling 12 packs of bud light in south texas... the effects of the genetic super buck race are not all going to be good.

I'm also wondering about the new laws regarding antler size in East Texas. Personally, I think it's a good idea, since a lot of 1.5 year old deer were getting shot.. but there are probably a lot of hunters out there that don't give a rats *** about the size of the horns.. they just want some meat. Going along with the fact that in many of these counties you can't shoot a doe.. there are probably a few guys out there that will come home empty handed. Is this right?
 
#9 ·
It's okay to not like us "playing God" with animals. By chance do you have a problem with doctors as well who cheat death daily by treating their patients?

To improve the herd by taking out the weakest and inferior animals has been going on for centuries, it's nothing new. The Indians knew to do that. It strengthens the herd. Especially in the wild, low fenced areas of our state it is very important to monitor what is happening with the deer population. The current trend in those counties where the average age of a whitetail buck was only 2.5 years old shows that something needs to be done to increase the age of the deer; hence the 13" rule enacted by the TP&W. By removing the spike bucks and the inferior older bucks you are actually strengthening the herd. Now, if you take man out of the equation and eliminate hunting all together, then there would be no reason to do any of this; just allow nature to take its course and allow the animals to starve and die from diseases that will infect the herd.

If you're into wetlands, then you are doing a similar thing are you not? Improving upon the wetlands by making more of them and by planting that which the waterfowl likes the best and that which is good or them? Are you "playing God" when you create new ponds and habitat to increase the population of the waterfowl?

TH
 
#11 ·
I have been gone a few days, hunting by the way. So I must have missed whatever set you off on this rant. But I disagree with you. If I am hunting on my lease and I choose to pass on a 8 or a 10 point buck that's only 2 1/2 years old and opt for a 3 1/2 year old 4pt. it's my choice. And the very act of killing any of them I would think could be construed as playing god. So your thinking is flawed.

Pass the popcorn :D
 
#12 ·
Trouthunter said:
It's okay to not like us "playing God" with animals. By chance do you have a problem with doctors as well who cheat death daily by treating their patients?

To improve the herd by taking out the weakest and inferior animals has been going on for centuries, it's nothing new. The Indians knew to do that. It strengthens the herd. Especially in the wild, low fenced areas of our state it is very important to monitor what is happening with the deer population. The current trend in those counties where the average age of a whitetail buck was only 2.5 years old shows that something needs to be done to increase the age of the deer; hence the 13" rule enacted by the TP&W. By removing the spike bucks and the inferior older bucks you are actually strengthening the herd. Now, if you take man out of the equation and eliminate hunting all together, then there would be no reason to do any of this; just allow nature to take its course and allow the animals to starve and die from diseases that will infect the herd.

If you're into wetlands, then you are doing a similar thing are you not? Improving upon the wetlands by making more of them and by planting that which the waterfowl likes the best and that which is good or them? Are you "playing God" when you create new ponds and habitat to increase the population of the waterfowl?

TH
Trouthunter...I think we're way past taking out the "weakest and inferior" bucks.... have you seen some of the "cull buck" photos? These deer aren't "weak" their only fault is they have a set of horns that will never make the book.

It's not like people are paying $2000 for cull hunts to go out and look for a three legged, one eyed, 9.5 year old buck. They're looking for healthy, large deer, that have the largest rack with 8 points or less.

and as far as doctors healing people go... that's not really in the same ballpark...

as far as playing God goes, I would think that inserting a tube of super buck semen into a doe for the specific reason of larger horns might fall under that category
 
#13 ·
Mr Mudbug said:
Good point, but be careful the high fence boys get offended easily. If ya make to much noise or don't agree ya get threatened to be culled from this board. Believe me i know.
I am low and high but I gotta let you know it is annoying as heck to hear the whining about how a high fence ranch charges to much for their deer, how a hunter didn't put any sport in the hunt, etc. We've heard it all. So instead of griping about it go out and do your hunt, report back, and dont worry about what the landowners are doing with their own property. You'll be whining the rest of your life if you let it get to you. :)
 
#14 ·
Big money + big egos = big antlers. So be it. I dont at all understand it but nobody really cares what I think about their game management

I think about what my deceased ranch owner buddy told me when I asked him how it felt to "own" a 5000 acre ranch. He laughed and reminded me that the land didnt know who "owned" it.

The gargantuan horn fad will pass when the dollars exceed the ego boost. Not till then.
 
#15 ·
I'll add to what I already posted:

A 10,000 acre ranch is not by any means a "private petting zoo". That is just showing your ignorance of the subject and should probably be edited by you triple f.

Also, let's not turn this concern of triple f into a high fence-low fence thread or it will go away. That subject has been debated enough and there is no reason to visit it again.

TH
 
#16 ·
Trouthunter said:
Are you "playing God" when you create new ponds and habitat to increase the population of the waterfowl?

TH
No sir, not that I can tell. I am working to try and repair the damage that has been done by man. I am not working towards trying to grow 25 pound mallards, or pintails with 2' long pins, or teal the size of snow geese! I am simply trying to make sure that there is sufficient habitat to allow these animals to continue their normal life cycle and avoid, or at least greatly delay, their extinction!

There is, at least to me, a huuuuuuuuge difference between "Conservation" and "Genetic Engineering".
 
#17 ·
So Kyle...

Kyle 1974 said:
Trouthunter...I think we're way past taking out the "weakest and inferior" bucks.... have you seen some of the "cull buck" photos? These deer aren't "weak" their only fault is they have a set of horns that will never make the book.

It's not like people are paying $2000 for cull hunts to go out and look for a three legged, one eyed, 9.5 year old buck. They're looking for healthy, large deer, that have the largest rack with 8 points or less.

and as far as doctors healing people go... that's not really in the same ballpark...

as far as playing God goes, I would think that inserting a tube of super buck semen into a doe for the specific reason of larger horns might fall under that category
What's your point? You don't like deer with large antlers? Or you don't think it's right to strive to have a deer herd with large antlers for others to hunt? Which is it because I have to tell you I'm getting pretty thin skinned on all of this banter about big horns versus small horns, it makes no sense.

To some any buck is a good buck and to others it's all about the size of the rack, to each his or her own, what the hell is your problem with it?

TH
 
#19 ·
I am simply trying to make sure that there is sufficient habitat to allow these animals to continue their normal life cycle and avoid, or at least greatly delay, their extinction!


I am too by culling the crud out of inferiors and trying to get the buck/doe ratio to 1:1
 
#20 ·
Trouthunter said:
What's your point? You don't like deer with large antlers? Or you don't think it's right to strive to have a deer herd with large antlers for others to hunt? Which is it because I have to tell you I'm getting pretty thin skinned on all of this banter about big horns versus small horns, it makes no sense.

To some any buck is a good buck and to others it's all about the size of the rack, to each his or her own, what the hell is your problem with it?

TH
trouth hunter...I'm not going to argue with you about it. I could care less how thin skinned you're getting as well. If you can't handle it, then don't reply.
 
#21 ·
Maybe So

triple f said:
No sir, not that I can tell. I am working to try and repair the damage that has been done by man. I am not working towards trying to grow 25 pound mallards, or pintails with 2' long pins, or teal the size of snow geese! I am simply trying to make sure that there is sufficient habitat to allow these animals to continue their normal life cycle and avoid, or at least greatly delay, their extinction!

There is, at least to me, a huuuuuuuuge difference between "Conservation" and "Genetic Engineering".
But you're messing with nature, which means you're messing with what God has done. No doubt about that. The folks who feed protein and who take care of the deer, low fence or high fence are doing the same thing. They're improving upon that which is available.

You said it yourself;
I am working to try and repair the damage that has been done by man.
I don't see any difference between what you do and what the ranchers do (scientific breeding aside) because scientific breeding is done within a closed cell, not an open one so that's contained.

TH
 
#23 ·
This is not about cull bucks!!!!! Or high fences!!!!!! Or about hunters paying whatever price for a buck!!!!!! Please don't take this thread somewhere it wasn't intended to go! My issue is with the attitude that we must eliminate all members of whatever group that do not meet up to our standards!


hmmmmmmmmmmmm, I've heard that philosophy before.......somewhere from school........history book I believe............just can't recall the name of the fella that was behind it.................
 
#24 ·
Kyle, tell you what, I read it twice, where did I miss your point? Perhaps you should read what I typed? Are you specific to a high fenced operation or what?

I'll ask you again, only once...

You don't like deer with large antlers?

You don't think it's right to strive to have a deer herd with large antlers for others to hunt?

Two simple questions and I didn't even tell you to chill out.

TH
 
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