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Puzzling bow shot

3K views 33 replies 15 participants last post by  rost495 
#1 ·
20 yards broadside, I shoot a little off and hit in middle of front shoulder. Deer turns and arrow breaks off with 4 inches inside him. Found a little blood about 200 yards from shot and that is it, I looked for approx 4 hours with no luck. would have been my biggest buck ever and first buck with a bow. what would make my arrow break off like that, maybe I hit the bone. I cant figure it out other than I made a bad shot. Makes me question the 100 grain muzzy. my bow is set at 62 lbs. anybody ever have the same situation? i will go back thursday and keep looking.
 
#2 ·
I had that happen once to me also. I hit the big bone of the shoulder and got no penetration and no blood. I was lucky that my entire arrow fell out and I am sure the buck recovered with little ill effect.

I do not think you will find that deer dead. My guess is that he is still alive. I am sorry for your loss. I know how upset you must be, it sucks to wound an animal.

62 lbs is plenty of weight, the key is always shot placement. I do tend to like a heavy arrow. Mine weight in at 600 grs, and have even shot heavier. I would rather give up a little in flat trajectory and gain it in penetration for those times when we are not perfect. If you have the time you should read the study done by Ashby on penetration in Africa. Very interesting. If you did get 4 inches into the chest cavity you killed the deer, I am just guessing that it did not go in that far. Good luck finding your deer, I hope I am wrong.
 
#5 ·
4" of penetration at 20 yards...wow. I'm sorry you experienced this and I hope the animal makes it.

I'm not a big bowhunter, but I'd say you need to check your broadheads, arrows (as Chunky mentioned), and arrow speed.

If I experienced that I would have serious questions about picking up that same weapon again. It is kinda like the rifle hunters that use 22cal (.222, .223, .22-250, etc) varmint bullets to shoot deer behind the shoulder.

A weapon that can only penetrate 4" probably isn't adequate...is it?
 
#6 ·
Nothing happened to your deer at all. Broadhead never made it past the ball joint or bone, never into the internals. Head will fall out at some point or simply heal up. Not much different than running into tree limbs, having tines jab them or all the thorns and such that get stuck in them. Clean wound, smarter deer, none the worse for wear.

Same setup will penetrate almost anything else but that bone area. Too solid, and then too flexible at the same time.

Its a common thing at that one specific point so don't sweat it any.

Jeff
 
#7 ·
rost495 said:
Not much different than running into tree limbs, having tines jab them or all the thorns and such that get stuck in them.
Respectfully disagree.

rost495 said:
Same setup will penetrate almost anything else but that bone area.
Too bad that bone area is close to the vitals and covers them depending on the angle.

rost495 said:
Its a common thing at that one specific point so don't sweat it any.
Not sure I could shrug my shoulders in such a case.
 
#8 ·
I understand what Woodrow is saying and it leaves to question. Knetic energy is very important in knowing that you are going to get good penetration. Certain broadheads provide much better results as well. Meaning they won't faulter as they go through bone etc...

I only shoot 62lbs and I've shot an arrow through a 3/4" piece of plywood and the fence behind it. I've blown out the ribs of hogs and deer as well.

It used to seem that more people would go for the heart shot when I first started bow hunting. Now it seems more and more people are shooting for the double lung and having greater success.

I've lost a deer before and all I can say is I feel for you. If you are anything l am you've replayed it over and over again wondering what you'd do different. If you are confident in your equipment and with your shot then get back in there and try it again.
 
#9 ·
I'm sure of my bow which is a mathews legacy. my arrows are gold tips with muzzy 100 grain 4 blade. I know I screwed the shot by a couple inches but I can not stand the feeling that I injured a deer or he is laying there for the buzzards. Regardless I will go back thurs morning and look more until either I find him or I convince myself he will be ok. I had been watching several different bucks for about 30 minutes when I caught this guy coming in. I scored him between 130-135 8 point and my heart started pounding, I finally got my rangefinder put behind me in my seat and got relaxed before I shot. My son and daughter were watching from my tower blind about 100 yds my son said he saw the arrow break off when the deer bolted. just a bad shot all together.
 
#12 ·
Sorry to hear that and I know how bad you feel but shake it off there is 3,999,000.00 left. Do yourself a favor and dump the Muzzys and get you some 100 gr Montecs, The Muzzys fail when you hit bone, I have a hole jar full of them and some others that just dont hold up.
 
#15 ·
Woodrow

I understand your statement about using underpowered rifles but you are not comparing apples to apples. A poor shot whether its a gun or bow is still a poor shot. Bowhunters do not aim dead center on the shoulder for the same reason gun hunters shoot behind the shoulder. Bow hunters want a clean shot at the vitals as gun hunters do. As a gun/bow hunter when this happens to you (same as shooting high or rear) you don't feel good about it, you question your aiming skills, you feel badly for possibly injuring an animal and it doesnt matter if you have a gun/bow in your hands. Cj may have learned more from this than any advice anyone can give him. He will cetainly be harder on himself than anyone else. So all you can do is practice, get back on that horse (as others have mentioned) and keep going.
 
#16 ·
Woodrow

I initially thought your thread on bowhunting was with an open mind. Now I'm fairly convinced your mind is made up and anti-bowhunting. Much like I am anti- ballistic tip. I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my time BUT I feel obliged.

#1 your respectfully disagreeing. I used to get upset early on by a wound too. Then I ended up killing a handful of deer from only a few hours to a few days or weeks after a wound. I found that none were infected, most you had to really look for and none were the worse for wear. As a taxidermist I've also skinned out way to many heads and animals and know that wounds from guns or limbs/thorns, or fighting tine wounds are much nastier, full of puss etc..... no one seems to get upset about that so I learned that a bow wound thats non lethal is much a non issue to me. Animals don't think, have no feelings and have less pain sensation than humans do. I think we are on 2 different levels. Note my earlier reply on human pain factors on cuts vs gunshots and you'll find that a gun inflicts more pain than a sharp head will.

#2 The bone you seem to worry about is very small. A small diameter round bone thats at an angle and only a few inches long. This is the one that can stop a broadhead, due to the fact its flexible against the meat and does provide a way to soak up energy, IE put that bone against a board and the broadhead would penetrate it easily. A very small percentage target to actually hit and most don't try to anyway, though its been proven over and over this hit does no damage. Though again I feel your mind is made up. The actual shoulder blade is easily blown through by most heads and bow setups.

#3 Why I shrug my shoulders, what has happened here will happen in other ways to the deer through each year of its life. Much like us cutting ourselves with a knife or breaking a bone. A fact of life. Not much I can do about it when its me so I don't lament the fact, I just go on with my life. Much like the deer do. Heck they even go on after someone shoots a leg off or they loose a leg to a vehicle etc... Nope I don't like it, but there is nothign I can do but to try better next time, regardless of weapon choice.

Hope I've enlightened you some. There is no way the mentioned buck was more than flesh wounded, and he was back to normal an hour later, going on about life. No infection, no fever, etc........ free to chase does and go on about life. Not much different than 2 boys getting in a fight over a girl and from some buck fights a much easier battle than a real one. I doubt we can change your mind and being what life is and that folks gave their lives for you and I to have our opinions, I respect yours but will always disagree vehemently. I beg to say I won't challenge your choice of weapons, even though they wound too, so offer to say, why waste your time and our time trying to villify something you evidently want no part of?

Regards, Jeff
 
#17 ·
not the muzzy's

It is just part of hunting--sometimes you can do everything right and stuff happens. As far as the broadheads I have killed 11 deer and 6 hogs with Muzzys--never lost a deer and have lost 2 hogs. I shot Spitfires for one season and lost 2 deer both on what I felt were good shots. Practice and confidence in your equipment is most important as well as good tracking abilities. Hope you find him or see him again.
 
#18 ·
SaHunter said:
Woodrow

I understand your statement about using underpowered rifles but you are not comparing apples to apples. A poor shot whether its a gun or bow is still a poor shot. Bowhunters do not aim dead center on the shoulder for the same reason gun hunters shoot behind the shoulder. Bow hunters want a clean shot at the vitals as gun hunters do. As a gun/bow hunter when this happens to you (same as shooting high or rear) you don't feel good about it, you question your aiming skills, you feel badly for possibly injuring an animal and it doesnt matter if you have a gun/bow in your hands.
I respectfully disagree. A shot going through shoulder(s) with a rifle is not a bad shot at all. The point I was making is that a rifle hunter using a 22cal rifle such as a 22-250 or 223 with varmint bullets CAN'T/SHOULDN'T go through the shoulder(s) b/c the combo will lack penetration...their only "hope" is going through the ribs for a behind the shoulder shot...or neck/head. The same is true for a bowhunter (except for the neck/head shot of course!).

I do agree that a poor shot is a poor shot. An underpowered rifle such as mentioned above is pretty close to apples - apples with a bow, but a more capable rifle/bullet combo is not...though certainly not incapable of poor shots!
 
#20 ·
CJ,

I don't know if it will make you feel any better, but, I was boning a deer several years ago and found a broadhead lodged in a shoulder blade. The deer showed absolutely zero outward signs of the injury and it had obviously happened many years prior.

I'm not going to get into the whole bow hunting debate here. It happens with every form of hunting and we all just need to be as proficient and disciplined as with our methods/shot selections.
 
#21 ·
rost495 said:
Woodrow

I initially thought your thread on bowhunting was with an open mind. Now I'm fairly convinced your mind is made up and anti-bowhunting. Much like I am anti- ballistic tip. I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my time BUT I feel obliged.

#1 your respectfully disagreeing. I used to get upset early on by a wound too. Then I ended up killing a handful of deer from only a few hours to a few days or weeks after a wound. I found that none were infected, most you had to really look for and none were the worse for wear. As a taxidermist I've also skinned out way to many heads and animals and know that wounds from guns or limbs/thorns, or fighting tine wounds are much nastier, full of puss etc..... no one seems to get upset about that so I learned that a bow wound thats non lethal is much a non issue to me. Animals don't think, have no feelings and have less pain sensation than humans do. I think we are on 2 different levels. Note my earlier reply on human pain factors on cuts vs gunshots and you'll find that a gun inflicts more pain than a sharp head will.

#2 The bone you seem to worry about is very small. A small diameter round bone thats at an angle and only a few inches long. This is the one that can stop a broadhead, due to the fact its flexible against the meat and does provide a way to soak up energy, IE put that bone against a board and the broadhead would penetrate it easily. A very small percentage target to actually hit and most don't try to anyway, though its been proven over and over this hit does no damage. Though again I feel your mind is made up. The actual shoulder blade is easily blown through by most heads and bow setups.

#3 Why I shrug my shoulders, what has happened here will happen in other ways to the deer through each year of its life. Much like us cutting ourselves with a knife or breaking a bone. A fact of life. Not much I can do about it when its me so I don't lament the fact, I just go on with my life. Much like the deer do. Heck they even go on after someone shoots a leg off or they loose a leg to a vehicle etc... Nope I don't like it, but there is nothign I can do but to try better next time, regardless of weapon choice.

Hope I've enlightened you some. There is no way the mentioned buck was more than flesh wounded, and he was back to normal an hour later, going on about life. No infection, no fever, etc........ free to chase does and go on about life. Not much different than 2 boys getting in a fight over a girl and from some buck fights a much easier battle than a real one. I doubt we can change your mind and being what life is and that folks gave their lives for you and I to have our opinions, I respect yours but will always disagree vehemently. I beg to say I won't challenge your choice of weapons, even though they wound too, so offer to say, why waste your time and our time trying to villify something you evidently want no part of?

Regards, Jeff
Jeff,

Wow, I don't know where to start. I don't feel that I am trying to "vilify" bowhunting. I've tried to script my posts in a manner so that it is known that I am searching for an answer more than I am stating a fact or a broad belief.

I own a bow. All I've killed with it is a turkey, but I've had it in my hands with the intent of killing other game. However, due to several reasons it is currently collecting dust (I haven't made the time to practice as much I need to lately; starting reloading which takes up time that would have been spent with a bow; questioning a bows efficiency; and others).

To address some of your points that stick out:

I guess I just have a problem shrugging my shoulders at something I caused. I'm not denying that pain happens to deer and humans as a part of life, but I'm not going to shrug my shoulders at causing it.

I don't think it is only that 'one small bone' that stops broadheads and inadequate bullets. (see TX Palerider's post) Given my lack of experience in bowhunting I am not opposed to being wrong, but I don't personally know any good bowhunters that would intentionally aim directly into a shoulder.

The only thing you've possibly enlightened me to is that a bow wound might not be as lethal as I thought, but is that a good thing?

You're anti-ballistic tip, which is capable of reaching vitals on a direct shoulder shot on deer sized game the vast majority of the time (unless in a varmint round), but not against a weapon isn't capable of the same most of the time. I'm not trying to convince you that you should be anti-bowhunting (or anyone else for that matter), but I find this to be an ironic stance. (I don't shoot BT's either)

"I doubt we can change your mind and being what life is and that folks gave their lives for you and I to have our opinions, I respect yours but will always disagree vehemently. I beg to say I won't challenge your choice of weapons, even though they wound too, so offer to say, why waste your time and our time trying to villify something you evidently want no part of?"

*I'm not opposed to being wrong.
*I never said a rifle doesn't wound…I know it does b/c I've done it and seen it done.

*If I didn't want any part of it I wouldn't waste my time or fingers typing…and I wouldn't have wasted my money in purchasing a bow.

We'll have to agree to disagree at this point.

I welcome anyones thoughts on why I am wrong, and I don't mean that as a challenge...I'm seriously open to enlightenment.

Respectfully,

David
 
#22 ·
After talking to an experienced bowhunter I will say that I don't feel 22cal varmint bullets are apples to apples with broadheads. I was advised that it is approx 50/50 on an arrow reaching the vitals on a shoulder shot and I feel that is MUCH better than a 22cal varmint bullets odds.
 
#23 ·
Woodrow, as a side note, I was just kidding when I asked if you were fishing or hunting the last time you questioned the use of a bow.

Woodrow said:
4" of penetration at 20 yards...wow. I'm sorry you experienced this and I hope the animal makes it.

I'm not a big bowhunter, but I'd say you need to check your broadheads, arrows (as Chunky mentioned), and arrow speed.

If I experienced that I would have serious questions about picking up that same weapon again. It is kinda like the rifle hunters that use 22cal (.222, .223, .22-250, etc) varmint bullets to shoot deer behind the shoulder.

A weapon that can only penetrate 4" probably isn't adequate...is it?
If you believe the above, you are right, you do need to learn more about the sport.

"A weapon that can only penetrate 4" probably isn't adequate...is it?" A bow is not intended to be used to penetrate a shoulder. You should never expect a kill with a shoulder shot. Shot placement is the key. If you hit the shoulder, you failed. If you hit the guts, you failed. If you hit anywhere you didn't aim, and still take the animal, you still failed to some degree.

"I'd say you need to check your broadheads, arrows (as Chunky mentioned), and arrow speed." The broadhead is fine. I have taken allot of game with this exact broadhead over the years. 62#'s is more than enough draw weight to kill an elk, much less a whitetail.

Allot of us bowhunt because we enjoy the increase in the level of difficulty and like the challenge. It opens up a whole new realm. It requires allot to accomplish the task. 100 things can go wrong and will. You have to learn allot more about the game you are hunting to get close. A rifle hunter tries to see how far away he can shoot an animal, a bowhunter tries to see how close he can shoot an animal. I'm sure you have heard that before. You have to do everything exactly right to tag it. I will eventually make it even more difficult when I pick up a recurve. The challenge to out wit an old weary whitetail buck, an animal that survives on it's keen senses, into my kill zone is what keeps me coming back for more.

I don't get bothered when someone wounds an animal, if they address what happened that caused them to miss. Be a gun or bow, as a hunter you should analyze what went wrong and correct it before the next hunt. Seems that is what cj9271 is trying to do. I'll bash, even cuss people that hunt, make a mistake and don't care to know what went wrong or fix it.

Bashing the whole sport altogether is B.S.

You have a nice buck in your avatar. What is next for you? Don't you feel the need to up your challenge? I bet the Ranch (not mine anyways) that if you harvest a good buck with your bow, you will do a U-turn on your ideas.
 
#24 ·
Let me be clear, I'm NOT anti-bowhunting. If I was, then I'd sell my bow and wouldn't congratulate/respect my friends and others that harvest game with a bow because I DO feel it is a great challenge that should be commended.

TOP FLIGHT said:
"A weapon that can only penetrate 4" probably isn't adequate...is it?" A bow is not intended to be used to penetrate a shoulder. You should never expect a kill with a shoulder shot. Shot placement is the key. If you hit the shoulder, you failed. If you hit the guts, you failed. If you hit anywhere you didn't aim, and still take the animal, you still failed to some degree.
I actually agree with all of your response here. When I wrote this I was using the previously mentioned 22cal varmint bullet comparison in my head (I'm against using 22cal varmint bullets on deer), but now after some consideration I don't feel it is a fair one as I do believe the arrow is more capable.

TOP FLIGHT said:
"I'd say you need to check your broadheads, arrows (as Chunky mentioned), and arrow speed." The broadhead is fine. I have taken allot of game with this exact broadhead over the years. 62#'s is more than enough draw weight to kill an elk, much less a whitetail.
I know the broadhead in question is fine, by design, but I should have been more specific in my response b/c what I was getting at is that they should be checked for sharpness, etc...especially if they have been used in a target or on game previously. I'll trust that the draw weight is okay.

TOP FLIGHT said:
Allot of us bowhunt because we enjoy the increase in the level of difficulty and like the challenge. It opens up a whole new realm. It requires allot to accomplish the task. 100 things can go wrong and will. You have to learn allot more about the game you are hunting to get close. A rifle hunter tries to see how far away he can shoot an animal, a bowhunter tries to see how close he can shoot an animal. I'm sure you have heard that before. You have to do everything exactly right to tag it. I will eventually make it even more difficult when I pick up a recurve. The challenge to out wit an old weary whitetail buck, an animal that survives on it's keen senses, into my kill zone is what keeps me coming back for more.

I don't get bothered when someone wounds an animal, if they address what happened that caused them to miss. Be a gun or bow, as a hunter you should analyze what went wrong and correct it before the next hunt. Seems that is what cj9271 is trying to do. I'll bash, even cuss people that hunt, make a mistake and don't care to know what went wrong or fix it.
No complaints on the above.

TOP FLIGHT said:
Bashing the whole sport altogether is B.S.


I don't feel that I'm "bashing" it, or at least I know I'm not trying to.

TOP FLIGHT said:
You have a nice buck in your avatar. What is next for you? Don't you feel the need to up your challenge? I bet the Ranch (not mine anyways) that if you harvest a good buck with your bow, you will do a U-turn on your ideas.
Thanks. What's next? When I go hunting I'm just like a fat girl at the prom...just happy to be there. I'm not looking to "top my best" everytime I go out...we both know there is more to it than that...or at least there should be. When I harvest my first deer with a bow (notice I said "when" not "if") I know it will be amazing...I'm just not there yet...I love my rifle, I feel comfortable with it, and I get great satisfaction out of using it.

CJ9271, considering I feel I've been somewhat misinterpreted on this thread I want you to know that I never meant any offense to you. I'm sorry for what happened to you in the field. I'm no saint, I've wounded deer with a rifle.
 
#25 ·
Might be off topic but if you gave me a 222 or a 22-250 loaded with 60gr nosler partions and I'll kill you a truck full of deer and not loose a one due to caliber size. maybe due to human error though. I just love those bullets.
 
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