NMFS BS

[texasrangerw]

First for every negative letter you post about Quota Shares I bet there is 8-10 positive letters to counter.

The gulf red snapper IFQ has been a huge success there is plenty testimony to support that fact.

You should be thankful for a commercial fishery that came together hashed out the fishery management problems by addressing them and developing a successful plan.

I believe the commercial fishery will tweak any issues in their plan as they go along.

Second the numbers used as stated in the post was used for the argument. Did you not read the beginning of the post? I’m sure there has to be some sort of data available. Has the leadership not been keeping up with those numbers for the past twenty years? The important thing to remember is the CFH fish bowls would remain the same once separated.
I would appreciate knowing I had my same amount of fish bowls to fish out of each year. Determine the number of bowls and then divide the bowls by 1,400. Do you get that? Need another chart?

Talk about accountability.

Third the grouper has been terribly managed for years and will take longer to rebuild. Poorly managed I agree but once again some good leaders in the commercial industry stepped up to the plate and said guys we have a problem in our industry let find a solution. I believe in 3-4 years you will be hearing about the grouper IFQ success stories in that industry.

Yes I agree the red snapper are expanding perhaps it due to benefits of an good IFQ rebuilding plan and the reduced TAC that help. Some grouper TAC have not been met in years and leaders in the industry should have gotten a plan started sooner. But let’s not dwell on the past bad management. Focus on the future not the past and keep long term gains in mind as well.

Multi species catch shares could possibly address the issue. Example: One CFH not having enough snapper and another CFH having more than he needs. Perhaps those two CFH could just swap out with one another to address those issues.

If Quota shares were not wanted in CFH perhaps a real time yearly stock assessment could be done. How about some fish tags? I would love to hear the solution from the great wizards who has acted as the spokesman for the recreational sector for over twenty years.

How many more years will the CFH have to continue tolerating poor leadership.

Many of your questions are questions you should be asking yourself. That OK because I want to help the resource.

You know life is supposed to be fun (positive) so discard those negative thoughts (non-fun) and educate yourself to think in more appropriate (positive) ways.

Just take the first step. At first will seem a little awkward but once you get the hang of it “you’ll be underway making way”.

Some look at a glass of water and see it half full. Others look at the same glass see it half empty but unfortunately there are some who just keep their glasses turned upside down.

Ida Meanwell

[Aces Full]

Originally Posted by texasrangerw

First for every negative letter you post about Quota Shares I bet there is 8-10 positive letters to counter.

The gulf red snapper IFQ has been a huge success there is plenty testimony to support that fact.

You should be thankful for a commercial fishery that came together hashed out the fishery management problems by addressing them and developing a successful plan.

I believe the commercial fishery will tweak any issues in their plan as they go along.

Second the numbers used as stated in the post was used for the argument. Did you not read the beginning of the post? I’m sure there has to be some sort of data available. Has the leadership not been keeping up with those numbers for the past twenty years? The important thing to remember is the CFH fish bowls would remain the same once separated.
I would appreciate knowing I had my same amount of fish bowls to fish out of each year. Determine the number of bowls and then divide the bowls by 1,400. Do you get that? Need another chart?

Talk about accountability.

Third the grouper has been terribly managed for years and will take longer to rebuild. Poorly managed I agree but once again some good leaders in the commercial industry stepped up to the plate and said guys we have a problem in our industry let find a solution. I believe in 3-4 years you will be hearing about the grouper IFQ success stories in that industry.

Yes I agree the red snapper are expanding perhaps it due to benefits of an good IFQ rebuilding plan and the reduced TAC that help. Some grouper TAC have not been met in years and leaders in the industry should have gotten a plan started sooner. But let’s not dwell on the past bad management. Focus on the future not the past and keep long term gains in mind as well.

Multi species catch shares could possibly address the issue. Example: One CFH not having enough snapper and another CFH having more than he needs. Perhaps those two CFH could just swap out with one another to address those issues.

If Quota shares were not wanted in CFH perhaps a real time yearly stock assessment could be done. How about some fish tags? I would love to hear the solution from the great wizards who has acted as the spokesman for the recreational sector for over twenty years.

How many more years will the CFH have to continue tolerating poor leadership.

Many of your questions are questions you should be asking yourself. That OK because I want to help the resource.

You know life is supposed to be fun (positive) so discard those negative thoughts (non-fun) and educate yourself to think in more appropriate (positive) ways.

Just take the first step. At first will seem a little awkward but once you get the hang of it “you’ll be underway making way”.

Some look at a glass of water and see it half full. Others look at the same glass see it half empty but unfortunately there are some who just keep their glasses turned upside down.

Ida Meanwell

Holy Moly!!! This EDF plant thinks we were all born last night!!! It's all right here fellas. See what you are joined up with. This stuff is right off of EDF's playbook.

Dude! There is an open door in Austin waiting for you. They may have to fire Levelwind first, but ya'll are a match made in heaven!

I'd pick this one apart, but I have some letters to get started on.

[bob zales, II]

Originally Posted by texasrangerw

First for every negative letter you post about Quota Shares I bet there is 8-10 positive letters to counter.

The gulf red snapper IFQ has been a huge success there is plenty testimony to support that fact.

You should be thankful for a commercial fishery that came together hashed out the fishery management problems by addressing them and developing a successful plan.

I believe the commercial fishery will tweak any issues in their plan as they go along.

Second the numbers used as stated in the post was used for the argument. Did you not read the beginning of the post? I’m sure there has to be some sort of data available. Has the leadership not been keeping up with those numbers for the past twenty years? The important thing to remember is the CFH fish bowls would remain the same once separated.
I would appreciate knowing I had my same amount of fish bowls to fish out of each year. Determine the number of bowls and then divide the bowls by 1,400. Do you get that? Need another chart?

Talk about accountability.

Third the grouper has been terribly managed for years and will take longer to rebuild. Poorly managed I agree but once again some good leaders in the commercial industry stepped up to the plate and said guys we have a problem in our industry let find a solution. I believe in 3-4 years you will be hearing about the grouper IFQ success stories in that industry.

Yes I agree the red snapper are expanding perhaps it due to benefits of an good IFQ rebuilding plan and the reduced TAC that help. Some grouper TAC have not been met in years and leaders in the industry should have gotten a plan started sooner. But let’s not dwell on the past bad management. Focus on the future not the past and keep long term gains in mind as well.

Multi species catch shares could possibly address the issue. Example: One CFH not having enough snapper and another CFH having more than he needs. Perhaps those two CFH could just swap out with one another to address those issues.

If Quota shares were not wanted in CFH perhaps a real time yearly stock assessment could be done. How about some fish tags? I would love to hear the solution from the great wizards who has acted as the spokesman for the recreational sector for over twenty years.

How many more years will the CFH have to continue tolerating poor leadership.

Many of your questions are questions you should be asking yourself. That OK because I want to help the resource.

You know life is supposed to be fun (positive) so discard those negative thoughts (non-fun) and educate yourself to think in more appropriate (positive) ways.

Just take the first step. At first will seem a little awkward but once you get the hang of it “you’ll be underway making way”.

Some look at a glass of water and see it half full. Others look at the same glass see it half empty but unfortunately there are some who just keep their glasses turned upside down.

Ida Meanwell

what bs from someone who still refuses to be IDed. The directed commercial red snapper ifq is a complete success and responsible for the red snapper recovery is total bs. First, red snapper directed discard reduction has more to do with the 13" size limit than ifqs, next the ifq program has only been in effect since 07 and not all of 07 and the recent up dated sedar used data thru 08. The almost complete shutdown of the srimp fishery due to imports, bad economy, and massives storms which destroyed many vessels has a lot to do with the recovery plus the fact the brds are working.
Now look at the other reef fish commercial fisheries and listen to the testimony of other commercial fishermen, you can read about it when the council verbatum minutes come out. Vermillion snapper fishermen told the council they are killing thousands of pounds of red snapper because they can not buy or lease rs ifq shares mostly because they are not available and then because they are too high priced to make any money. Next the grouper fishermen make the same statements. They are discarding thousands of pounds of red snapper along the west coast of FL. You saw the story by a 2cooler about his visual of a rs commercial boat throwing dead rs overboard. So say that again, the commercial rs ifq fishery is a big success and responsible for rebuilding rs? I also remember posting here last year from the local nmfs enforcement agents listing several rs ifq boats being busted for hidden compartments and other violations. Look at reality, not the edf and nmfs bs. Look at the whole picture not what you want people to see.

[texasrangerw]

Accountability breeds responsibility.

[Aces Full]

Originally Posted by texasrangerw

Accountability breeds responsibility.

Money leads to greed which hides accountability due to a loss in responsibility.

[bob zales, II]

We are all about communication which is one reason why I have posted that people should do their own research, don't rely on me, jarvis, or the unknown texasrangerw or edf. Go to the source, the nmfs or council. They own and control the data ask them to show it, they will, it costs nothing other than time and a request.
When you read the nmfs ifq report for each year they tell you the good things about the ifq plan, it is govt spin. They do not tell you the other side. Some of us tried to get the council to create an IFQ plan for all reef fish when they did the rs plan. Our suggestion was to create the plan then add the species. One of the key problems with the mfs and council is they develop plans such as reef fish with its regs, then they create a plan for mackerel, and its regs are almost totally different. In the real world the regs should be the same, same sell requirements, same restrictions, same financial requirements, the only difference is the species.
We suggested the same for the ifq plan. Again they refused to listen and now see what you have, one ifq plan for rs and now a different ifq plan for groupers. No consistancy in any of it.
Communication and give and take is what got us over 5,000 in dc. Lots of communication among many. Now, several Senators and congressmen told us that they understood us coming together and they all said that would get results. SOme of them told us they also understood the forces from the left and they identified the left as some ennviro groups who steadily work to separate fishermen and keep fishermen fighting one another. Now when a U.S. Senator says this and means it, guess what, that means they understand the forces of the enviros and that all the work the enviros do to divide are recognized so the Senators and Congressmen work with us because they understand the work against us.

[hilton]

"First for every negative letter you post about Quota Shares I bet there is 8-10 positive letters to counter." Yeah, right - you bet. And these supposed positive letters would be sent in by little old ladies pushed into writing the letters by EDF and Ocean Conservancy...certainly not by people that have experienced what catch shares have done to their communities and livleyhoods.

"The gulf red snapper IFQ has been a huge success there is plenty testimony to support that fact." Forget the EDF-funded "tesimony", show me the science that proves the IFQ program a success. It's pure propaganda by EDF, as they have not been implemented long enough to make a statement of that nature. They are also pointing to IFQs as being responsible for the comeback of the snapper - BS, Big Time, as there MANY factors already in place (reduced recreational bag limits/seasons, for example) that are responsible. They are pointing to IFQs as reducing bycatch mortality - again BS. Just as reducing the size limit to 13" had nothing to do with IFQs, and just as sector separation has nothing to do with providing accountability.

Hey Buddy, if Tex is saying COMMUNICATE, why doesn't he come out of the closet and give up his real name as requested several times already? If you guys REALLY mean what you say, come out and put your REAL name behind it - otherwise, it's just more BS from some anonomous do-gooder.

What about OCEAN CONSERVANCY'S (Jimmy Swaggart) Krebs and other SOS ringleaders who have recently been found guilty of violating fishery laws and each fined thousands of dollars? You look the other way when these guys are not looking out for the best interest of the fishery and IGNORING existing laws while they do it. Then you want us to follow THEIR lead?

Yeah, right.

Tom

Originally Posted by texasrangerw

First for every negative letter you post about Quota Shares I bet there is 8-10 positive letters to counter.

The gulf red snapper IFQ has been a huge success there is plenty testimony to support that fact.

You should be thankful for a commercial fishery that came together hashed out the fishery management problems by addressing them and developing a successful plan.

I believe the commercial fishery will tweak any issues in their plan as they go along.

Second the numbers used as stated in the post was used for the argument. Did you not read the beginning of the post? I’m sure there has to be some sort of data available. Has the leadership not been keeping up with those numbers for the past twenty years? The important thing to remember is the CFH fish bowls would remain the same once separated.
I would appreciate knowing I had my same amount of fish bowls to fish out of each year. Determine the number of bowls and then divide the bowls by 1,400. Do you get that? Need another chart?

Talk about accountability.

Third the grouper has been terribly managed for years and will take longer to rebuild. Poorly managed I agree but once again some good leaders in the commercial industry stepped up to the plate and said guys we have a problem in our industry let find a solution. I believe in 3-4 years you will be hearing about the grouper IFQ success stories in that industry.

Yes I agree the red snapper are expanding perhaps it due to benefits of an good IFQ rebuilding plan and the reduced TAC that help. Some grouper TAC have not been met in years and leaders in the industry should have gotten a plan started sooner. But let’s not dwell on the past bad management. Focus on the future not the past and keep long term gains in mind as well.

Multi species catch shares could possibly address the issue. Example: One CFH not having enough snapper and another CFH having more than he needs. Perhaps those two CFH could just swap out with one another to address those issues.

If Quota shares were not wanted in CFH perhaps a real time yearly stock assessment could be done. How about some fish tags? I would love to hear the solution from the great wizards who has acted as the spokesman for the recreational sector for over twenty years.

How many more years will the CFH have to continue tolerating poor leadership.

Many of your questions are questions you should be asking yourself. That OK because I want to help the resource.

You know life is supposed to be fun (positive) so discard those negative thoughts (non-fun) and educate yourself to think in more appropriate (positive) ways.

Just take the first step. At first will seem a little awkward but once you get the hang of it “you’ll be underway making way”.

Some look at a glass of water and see it half full. Others look at the same glass see it half empty but unfortunately there are some who just keep their glasses turned upside down.

Ida Meanwell

[texasrangerw]

“I learned that a great leader is a man who has the ability to get other people to do what they don't want to do and like it”

Harry S Truman also said

[Aces Full]

"I just learned that when confronted with facts, texasrangerw loses the ability to defend himself and we like it"

Aces Full

[MikeWilson]

Two pots full alright - but it ain't fish in them.
Mike

Originally Posted by texasrangerw

Ok here we go.
Fish bowl management
What we need is one of those Ross Perot (Texas Born!) charts to simplify it. Start with 3 bowls of fish drawn in at the top of the chart.
Let’s say for argument the recreational fishermen land X amount of bowls of fish (3) every year. Currently 2 Bowls (2/3) are landed by recreational for hire and 1 bowl (1/3) is landed by the private recreational fishermen.
So proportionately the CFH are landing 2 bowls of fish every year and the private recreational lands 1 bowl. Do you want to keep fishing your 2 bowls you depend on or do you want to have them diluted?
If the CFH are sector separated they would have 2 bowls of fish to catch divided by let’s say 1,400 businesses. That’s 2 bowls of fish per year divided by 1,400(permits). Remember the CFH provides access to the majority of the recreational fishermen.
Separating the sectors allow both CFH and private recreational sectors the flexibility to better manage their sector.
Again now that’s 2 bowls of fish divided by 1,400 from now until dooms day.
Talk about saving a sector. CFH are experienced fishermen who provide a safe fishing experience to the majority of the recreational fishermen.
Private anglers are mostly independent anglers with disposable income and don’t depend on the fishery for their livelihood.
So do you want to save your sector or just lump together all 3 bowls?
Save your 2 bowls! Don’t get watered down.
“Be the one who knows” don’t keep listening to the same poor leadership that’s led you down the wrong path for so many years.