NMFS BS

[Ed]

I like the Ida Meanwell thing: I might have to steal that and use it sometime.

[hilton]

Originally Posted by Mike Jennings

Steve you mean there are snapper in the South Atlantic ,,,,,,,two separate stocks of red snapper that are managed separately ? , say it ain't so !


if memory serves me right i made a long winded post a few days ago about multiple cut and paste , somewhat unrelated comments used as so called glaring examples.

Are you kidding me? I guess you guys didn't listen to the Senator - he is addressing the snapper issues, specifically talking about Bob Zales and 3 generations of fishermen HERE IN THE GULF OF MEXICO AND HOW THE MORATORIUMS ARE PUTTING CHARTERBOATS OUT OF BUSINESS.

Talk about muddying the waters - you guys are pitiful.

The point I was trying to make is that the NMFS twists the data however they want - you guys don't seem to care that they are putting chartboats out of business,as long as you are some of the chosen few.

Strange.

Tom

[MikeWilson]

Tom
you are just wasting your time with discussions with the SOS crowd- just like ******* in the wind.

The SoS'ers have an EDF agenda,talking points and play book they are working from.

Nothing anybody or any organization ever accomplishes (for example Bob Zales getting Senator Lemieux's ear) outside the SOS agenda will ever satisfy them.

They don't want to work with private recreational fisherman, they want control of CFH catch shares and to have it their way.
Mike

[Levelwind]

What an ugly thing to say. I abhor ugliness. Strange Tom says we're pitiful and Mike Wilson thinks we're a waste of time. Oh, woe is me.

[MikeWilson]

Originally Posted by Levelwind

What an ugly thing to say. I abhor ugliness. Strange Tom says we're pitiful and Mike Wilson thinks we're a waste of time. Oh, woe is me.

if you want to get back in my good graces - post an attaboy for Bob Zales here.

how's that lab hunting buddy by the way?
mike

[Levelwind]

He's a little better, Mike, thanks for asking. At 16, he heals real slow, if at all.

[Swells]

Math time!

If the GOM snapper stock average weight went from 3.4 pounds to 5.0 pounds, that is a 43 percent increase over two years. By all admissions, the biomass did increase quite a bit so they're not "over-fished" anymore.

In this case a 43 percent increase in landings, a subset of the entire snapper stock, would not be harmful in the least. We do have to assume that there are roughly the same number of red snapper, but they all got bigger.

This means that all things being equal, the rec days at sea should be identical to last years, but that the way the math works, the red snapper population would still increase in biomass (we don't catch every red snapper in the GOM, right?).

I could bore you with silly numbers but I am right.

The massive cover-up at the NMFS is that didn't tell the fish models there was all this extra poundage from larger snapper out in the GOM. Thus the "take" increased 43 percent because they jiggled the bigger stock assessment number to be only slightly higher. Thus our days at sea should be reduced by something like 40 percent!

This could mean 42 days at sea instead of 70.

But if you like playing with numbers as I do, I could make a completely rational argument that the same numbers mean our days at sea should be expanded from 70 days to 80 or even maybe 90 (June, July, and all of August).

From a policy perspective, this is a serious no-no. The red snapper are considered as not being "over-fished," but there still is some over-fishing going on. How can we let people rob more poundage from the sea? You need to put on your EDF hippie hat to figure the logic.

So the answer is somewhere between the same 70 days or something lower. I'd fight that one. I wonder what the fish experts think of this fundamental problem we're having here - the gap between the math and the reality.
sammie

[hilton]

Originally Posted by Mike Jennings

Steve you mean there are snapper in the South Atlantic ,,,,,,,two separate stocks of red snapper that are managed separately ? , say it ain't so !


if memory serves me right i made a long winded post a few days ago about multiple cut and paste , somewhat unrelated comments used as so called glaring examples.

Cowboy,
I posted up a cut and paste of some PERTINENT data relative to EDF's fingerprints on reauthorization of the MSA in addition to their efforts to fight the flexibility movement on a thread by Loco Pato. Loco Pato had cut and pasted an article by a supposed independent captain, but failed to mentioned that the guy is sponsored by EDF. Not really honest, was it.

Your response; More BS and confusion

Tom im not looking for another personal shooting match , but you continue to dig through web pages and cut-n-paste short snip-its ,, post them in an unrelated topic and out of context , attempting to apply them to an argument in a manner that shows you either misunderstand the bigger picture or you just don't know what your talking about ,

if you believe there is some grad conspiracy in the recreational fishery ,then so be it ,, im good with that being your opinion , and you will get no argument from me , but at least understand what your reading .

SO again lets give them the whole story , wether we agree with it or not .

First off let me clear the air ... i have no dog in this hunt , i have never owned a commercial permit and i have no intention of owning one in the future , with that said , lets explore what is left out of this post

the investors that Festa was meeting with was to encourage said investors to lend money to commercial fishermen to buy allocation and aid commercial companies to finance their participation in the catch share system.NOT TO ALLOW PRIVATE INVESTORS OR PIIVATE / PUBLICLY OWNED BANKS BUY CATCH SHARES BECAUSE AS I UNDERSTAND IT , IT IS NOT ALLOWED UNDER PRESENT FEDERAL LAW!.

I have since asked you several times the following with ZERO response - I guess I'll just have to keep asking until you answer Pard - otherwise, all your talk about BS and CONFUSION is just what you do best - spew BS and CONFUSION, AND THEN REFUSE TO BACK UP YOUR BS;

I will ask again;

You say; "the investors that Festa was meeting with was to encourage said investors to lend money to commercial fishermen to buy allocation and aid commercial companies to finance their participation in the catch share system.NOT TO ALLOW PRIVATE INVESTORS OR PIIVATE / PUBLICLY OWNED BANKS BUY CATCH SHARES BECAUSE AS I UNDERSTAND IT , IT IS NOT ALLOWED UNDER PRESENT FEDERAL LAW!." Festa was very clear in proposing the purchase of the shares with a resultant, exorbitant profit.


1) Who told you that Festa was urging the investors to "loan" money? Where did you get this info? - name and contact info please, or just post a link.

2) Even if they were lending the money, how are they going to achieve returns of 400% to 2,000%? Please explain, as I'm sure there are some banks and other lending institutions who would like to know how to get that type of return on "loans".

You ask; What does it have to do with recreational fishermen? Well, sector separation is simply setting the stage for the implementation of catch shares in the recreational sector, plain and simple. They just appropriated over $50 million to implement catch shares with the intent to implement them "where appropriate". 3) Are you saying that they are not looking at implementing catch shares in the recreational sector?

Tom

[texasrangerw]

Originally Posted by MikeWilson

Tom
you are just wasting your time with discussions with the SOS crowd- just like ******* in the wind.

The SoS'ers have an EDF agenda,talking points and play book they are working from.

Nothing anybody or any organization ever accomplishes (for example Bob Zales getting Senator Lemieux's ear) outside the SOS agenda will ever satisfy them.

They don't want to work with private recreational fisherman, they want control of CFH catch shares and to have it their way.
Mike

Now I agree better data is needed. How about accountability? Do you think you should have accountability measures? Government spending today without accountability is an example.

Bob has been attending Gulf Council meetings for a very long time and must have a solution by now.

He has work very close with Mrs. Bobby Walker for numerous years and many people have witnessed their efforts.

Perhaps you can post Bob or Bobby’s plans.

Did Bob Zales leave a copy of his plan with the senator? I assume this spokesman for the industry left behind a copy of his great plan.

I would love to view it and look it over.

[hilton]

Originally Posted by texasrangerw

Now I agree better data is needed. How about accountability? Do you think you should have accountability measures?

Hey,
How about the accountability issue that this thread is about? How about the NMFS being accountable for their actions?

It's coming.

Tom