sos-catch shares-mis-speaking

[jim smarr]

Originally Posted by Boboe

Emphasize the FUZZY MATH please. Data always has and always will be used against fishermen, regardless of what the data says. The NMFSS finally agreed that snapper were everywhere and we couldn't NOT catch them. So, for 2010 they said that means that snapper were bigger and easier to catch, and thus the TAC would be caught quicker. Result: shorter season.

If they had heard fishermen saying that they couldn't find any red snapper, they would claim overfishing and thus shorten the season.

It's a HEADS THEY WIN, TAILS YOU LOSE! WAKE UP!

Recreational Anglers have not had the ability to prove what the Gulf of Mexico is truly producing vs being told by NMFS what we are catching. Big Difference.

Having the real time catch data will enable Congress to step in with
the hammer when NMFS misbehaves in setting seasons.

[Levelwind]

Originally Posted by jim smarr

Recreational Anglers have not had the ability to prove what the Gulf of Mexico is truly producing vs being told by NMFS what we are catching. Big Difference.

Thank you Mr. Smarr. You may sign up here www.saveoursector.com

[Swells]

Having the real time catch data will enable Congress to step in with
the hammer when NMFS misbehaves in setting seasons.

I think the headboats can do that, and the rest of the CFH is probably headed towards "real time catch data" but I honestly don't see that for the "wrecks." Do you, honestly?

The NMFS has always had a problem with the private recreational sector. They simply don't trust any self-reported data. The catch cards or stamps are only used as a guideline as to when to close the season, and actual numbers are fudged higher because of the noncompliance rate. I hate to use stereotypes, but the NMFS views any purely recreational data as being a pack of lies, pirates, and thieves, with some captains running illegal charter operations on the side. I don't think you're going to change that mindset.

Perhaps I am thinking like their statisticians do at the NMFS. It is far easier to get a good registry of saltwater fishermen and randomly sample them for accurate catch data, just like the US Census has a short and a long form. If you think that you'll get 95 percent of the "wrecks" to submit real time data 95 percent of the time, I think you're slightly off course and mistaken. The NMFS does not want this, other than a registry, and their own sampling methods ... and they don't like it when Texas uses a different sampling method, either (we get penalized for that, even without the all-year inshore snapper fishing).

See where I'm going? The NMFS doesn't have the money to monitor all us rednecks and hippies and die-hard fishermen, aside from registration data from state licenses, some limited enforcement, and some crude sampling. It's a nice goal, no doubt. I just think that "real time" reporting for the private recreational fisherman is not what they want in the least, and that it would be an uphill fight to change that.
sammie

[jim smarr]

It would be a cold day in Hell-o before I or the RFA signed on to a plan that asked for Sector Separation, Catch Shares , Recreational IFQ's,ITQ's or any other plan to weaken or divide our sector.

You guys are welcomed to ditch your plan and go with catch cards which does nothing but get us the much needed data we have to have without giving up ownership to any group.

[jim smarr]

If asked the Recreational sector would comply with a catch card system. I do believe we all know how important realtime data is for the Gulf after seeing what just happened to the South Atlantic. NMFS may not like the results. Texas Parks and Wildlife could do a pilot program. It would show numbers much different from what NMFS blessed us with.

[Boboe]

Levelwind, please look at the message you sent me on 1/26/10 at 12:05 pm.

You definitely say that in the very first paragraph. Please correct me where I am wrong.

[Boboe]

Originally Posted by jim smarr

Recreational Anglers have not had the ability to prove what the Gulf of Mexico is truly producing vs being told by NMFS what we are catching. Big Difference.

Having the real time catch data will enable Congress to step in with
the hammer when NMFS misbehaves in setting seasons.

Until they have a real grasp of the population of fish, they're going to use all that data against you. Don't give them any ammo to use against you until they get the bottom half of that fraction (fish kept/total population) figured out. Otherwise, they just guess at the bottom half and use your data against you.

Don't you remember in '07 when they said, "fewer snapper are being caught. Therefore, they're overfished." They didn't account for there being fewer angler days spent on the water because fuel had doubled in price.

Then in '08 they saw snapper landings increase and yelled that the fish ere being overfished. It's always the conclusion they draw. They're going to keep drawing that. There is no bottom half of the fraction, and no really good way to get it.

[Levelwind]

Originally Posted by Boboe

Levelwind, please look at the message you sent me on 1/26/10 at 12:05 pm.

You definitely say that in the very first paragraph. Please correct me where I am wrong.

I was referring to a seperate ACL for the CFH sector. Allocations to broad sectors (ACLs) are not catch shares. Catch shares are allocations to specific entities, whether persons, corporations, co-ops or communities.

[bob zales, II]

ACL = Annual Catch Limits, another term for the current TAC = Total Allowable Catch

AM = Accountability Measures

If there is sector separation then each sector will have their own ACL and AM which will be part of the total ACL and AM for the whole fishery. You start with 100% and you end with 100% so in red snapper you subtract 51% of the total for the coms then you subtract 61% of the 49% left for the charters and headboats (based on knowledge when born by texan sosers), then 39% of the 49% would be for the pri/recs. Now, when you take headboats out of the 61% of 49%, and I don't know what that number is because I wasn't born in TX nor am I a soser so don't have that knowledge, will wait on a TX soser to let us know what that is, then whatever is left would be the charterboat ACL.