Seems to me the SOS leader is trying to talk nasty about Felexibility in Magnuson

[jim smarr]

Seems old Gary Jarvis is trying to sway our newest convert to Flexibility. Seems he may be doing a little #2 to close to the tent folks. There is no end to what this guy will try to get his catch shares or sector separation. The covert operation has become an overt operation with our friends in DC sharing this message.

JS



The below email was sent to Florida Senator LeMieux from Gary Jarvis. So y’all understand the significance of this, Senator just signed on as a co sponsor to Senator Schumer’s bill S1255 which will provide flexibility to the current regulations of our fisheries. An ever growing number of people are coming together from across the country to work together to gain this flexibility for all our fisheries. This effort includes recreational and commercial fishermen, consumers, support businesses, community leaders from across the country.
Senator LeMieux attended a meeting in Panama City, FL, conducted by the local Chamber of Commerce, and include people from Destin, Panama City, and Mexico Beach. They all helped convince the Senator to support S1255 and Senator Limoux has been extremely helpful with his support and efforts. As you can see Gary Jarvis, encouraged by Environmental Defense, is trying to disrupt the effort. One has to ask, is this the type person you want to join with to make you life better as a fishermen, as a consumer, and someone who tries to help everyone. Or, is this a person who works for his own selfish interests. You decide.

From: "gjabd@aol.com"
To: pamdana@yahoo.com; http@aim.com
Cc: Susie_PerezQuinn@billnelson.s; Lynn_Bannister@billnelson.se
Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 5:20:04 PM
Subject: sos charter for hire fishery plan


Senator LeMieux,

I have read your comments after meeting with recreational fishermen in Panama City last week. In spite of certain comments reported to have been made by those in the meeting, including those who have very legitimate concerns and complaints about the situation in recreational fisheries and the Charter for hire industry in particular. I have something to point out that go's right along with your comments about "quit complaining and being part of the problem and come up with solutions and become part of the answer." Quite a few of the spokes persons in that meeting are in a heated debate about our effort at the SOS charter for hire fishery plan and against our efforts to be both accountable and part of the data collection system . For reasons unknown to me they cling to the idea that we as a industry need more fish to catch all the while wanting to stay in the recreational sector as a whole that has continued to over fish 18 out of the last 20 years regardless of bag limits, season length and size limits. All status quo efforts to reign in this over fishing has failed.They want to blame the restrictions yet even when there where little restrictions the results have always been the same.
Our industry has been a limited entry no growth entity beginning with a 1996 control date..All of our customers catch and keep the amounts set aside for recreational fishing. This was used by managers as a tool to limit participation and facilitate better management and to help stop over fishing . .During this whole time the private recreational sector has continued to have unlimited growth and no one really knows how,what and how much they really harvest.They do however compete for the same fish as our recreational anglers.We are at a cross roads as you heard testimony at that meeting. Unlike those who spoke to you at that meeting we have a workable plan,supported by the tenets of the RMSA, recommended by the NRC, supported by NMFS and many members of the gulf council. A large group of some of the best fishing businesses in all 5 states in the Gulf have come up with a plan that will protect our industry and the access to the gulf reef complex for all recreational fishermen and women that do not have the luxury of living on the coast or the means to invest tens of thousands of dollars to buy a boat.

Please take the time to read or get your staff members to go on line at www.saveoursector.com and read all about our Charter for hire management plan. We need your support and those in congress who really want to help small business in America. We have a solution that can be done both at the Congressional and gulf council level. It requires no rewrite of congressional law, no compromise on sound conservation practices (it stops over fishing), no protest signs or marches on Washington. And it will make the NMFS and Charter for hire fishermen partners to solve these complicated issues. Please share with your colleagues on the committee you sit on about our plan. Hope to meet you in person soon. I am available at your leisure for further comment ,or to answer any questions
Capt Gary Jarvis f/v Back Down 2 www.backdown2.com Destin FL, 850-259-5482

[Boboe]

I know Gary and this is him perfectly. He's pretty ruthless. Nothing's off-limits or out-of-bounds for him.

How do I know him? I've worked for him.

[Levelwind]

I don't see anything that objectionable. Flexibility in Magnuson requires an act of Congress and does nothing to improve the fishery. That doesn't mean that I oppose it (I don't, and don't know that Jarvis does). A loosening of the time frames to restore the fishery is fine by me but will require a lot of effort and IMO not a great chance of success.

It sounds to me that Capt. Jarvis was reacting to Flexibility in Magnuson supporters who took the occassion of the Senators visit to badmouth the SOS plan, and is asking the Senator to at least educate himself on the plan.

I don't see that the two initiatives are mutually inconsistent. One addresses the speed with which the stocks are required to be rebuilt, the other provides a means by which we can measure progress more exactly and which would probably result in quicker progress toward that goal by eliminating over fishing in the CFH sector, as has been done in the Comm sector.

[Aces Full]

"For reasons unknown to me they cling to the idea that we as a industry need more fish to catch all the while wanting to stay in the recreational sector as a whole that has continued to over fish 18 out of the last 20 years regardless of bag limits, season length and size limits"

Nothing objectionable? Only a fool would agree with the statement above...

[Levelwind]

Originally Posted by Aces Full

"For reasons unknown to me they cling to the idea that we as a industry need more fish to catch all the while wanting to stay in the recreational sector as a whole that has continued to over fish 18 out of the last 20 years regardless of bag limits, season length and size limits"

Nothing objectionable? Only a fool would agree with the statement above...

Tell me what is incorrect about that statement.

[bob zales, II]

For the life of me I cannot understand how seemingly intellegent people can continue to believe the misguided info being provided by jarvis and edf. Contact the NMFS staff at the science and technology division and ask them about the data. Ask them how a vms validates fishery effort and harvest data, it does not, ask them if the sos plan can become the data system for the for hire vessels in the gulf, they will tell you it cannot, ask them if the state licensed for-hire guys will have their fish counted as private recreational and not under for-hire and then ask them how they will determine how that state for-hire effort and catch will be determined for the past 20 years.

Stop listening to jarvis, edf, me, or any other person. Call 301-713-2328 and ask for Tom Sminkey. He works for the NMFS S&T division and he will provide all the info you ever wanted to know. Then you have it from the source. You then do not have to depend on others.

And while we are hearing about all the issues with amending legislation and having people involved, check out the new england fishery management council action this past week where they changed their previous decision to have the scallopers work under the most restrictive regulations to the least restrictive regulations. Why? Because the people rose up and banded together and got their local politicians, then their state politicians, then their federal politicians involved and those representatives then applied the pressure to the council to undo what they had done.

Washington, here comes thousands of recreational, commercial, supporting businesses, community leaders, and citizens headed to you with plans in hand for change to the law. "FIX MAGNUSON NOW" "FLEXIBILITY IN FISHERIES" !!!!!

[bob zales, II]

All the talk from edf and jarvis about how the rec anglers over fished our quota 18 of 20 years is total bs. Using the numbers provided by the nmfs I took 12 of the last years from 2008 back and added, subtracked and divided and multiplied and came to an average of 45,000 pounds we were over our allocation each of those years. Now anyone who understands the current rec data system and standard error calculations will understand that 45k in a 2.5 to 4.5 million pound total is negligable and could easily be + or -.

Aside from that, assume for the sake of arguement that we did heavily harvest more quota 18 out of 20 years. Fact is we were told every year of those 20 years that if we continued to do so the fishery would never rebuild and could even collasp. Guess what, even with all the over harvest Dr. Crabtree now says that red snapper is no longer under going overfishing. How can that be???? If we did so much damge how did the fishery grow???? How did it become no longer under going overfishing???

Clearly if the folks at nmfs are correct and if we continued to over harvest our quota the fishery would never grow. How did it happen??? Wake up people, quit looking to blame your buddy and put people out of business when all you have to do is bring management to reality which flexibility in the law will do!!!

[Aces Full]

Originally Posted by Levelwind

Tell me what is incorrect about that statement.

Tell me what in that statement can be supported by verifiable facts?

Overfished 18 of the last 20 years...do you really believe that? Do you really feel confident about the means and methods used to collect the data to make that statement?

Use that as a start.

[bob zales, II]

Exactly the point, the numbers are all bs, verifed by the NRC!!!!

[Levelwind]

Originally Posted by Aces Full, II

Tell me what in that statement can be supported by verifiable facts?

Overfished 18 of the last 20 years...do you really believe that? Do you really feel confident about the means and methods used to collect the data to make that statement?

Use that as a start.

Originally Posted by bob zales, II

Using the numbers provided by the nmfs I took 12 of the last years from 2008 back and added, subtracked and divided and multiplied and came to an average of 45,000 pounds we were over our allocation each of those years.

You may not put any more faith in Capt. Zales ciphering than I do, but I doubt if he'd error on the side of the SOS contention.