Tide Info East and West Matagorda Bays - 2CoolFishing
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:15 AM
JREN JREN is offline
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Tide Info East and West Matagorda Bays

Where can i get tide info for E & W Matty? The closest I have found are POC and Freeport. This info will sure help on planing furure trips.Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:36 AM
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Super Dave Super Dave is offline
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some of the old salts, guides, know the tide differentials at various places but they are close mouthed about it. There used to be a gauge at the old gulf cut but its been out of service since end of 2005. The money was needed for Katrina refugees.
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Old 06-09-2009, 03:46 PM
JREN JREN is offline
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Tide Info East and West Matagorda Bays

Hay Super Dave,
Thanks for the reply. Since the OLD SALTS won't share I did some research and found this tide info. I am more than willing to share this info LOL





1. Conservation Laws
The Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum says that the total amount of angular momentum in a closed system is constant. The Law of Conservation of Energy says that the total amount of energy of a closed system is constant. This means that energy or angular momentum cannot just appear or disappear: they must always come from somewhere else or go to somewhere else.
Friction is an important cause of the conversion of kinetic energy (tied to directed motion) to heat. If you brake your bicycle or car then you cause friction between the brakes and the wheels, which reduces the speed difference between the brakes and the wheels and heats up the brakes and wheels. The kinetic energy has then been converted into heat in the brakes and wheels, which disappears into the surroundings, partly in the form of heat radiation. It is a lot more difficult to convert heat into kinetic energy.
The Earth and the Moon exert tidal forces on each other. Tidal forces occur when (slightly) different forces of gravity work on different parts of an object. The tidal forces between the Earth and the Moon try to make the spin periods of the Earth and the Moon equal to each other and equal to the orbital period of the Earth and the Moon. The spin period of the Moon is already equal to its orbital period, but the spin period of the Earth (the sidereal day) is still a lot shorter than the orbital period (the sidereal month). The tidal forces are gradually slowing down the rotation of the Earth.
If the spin rate of the Earth decreases, then the angular momentum and kinetic energy due to the spin of the Earth also decrease. The differences must have gone somewhere else, because the conservation laws say that energy and angular momentum can't just disappear. A part of the "lost" energy is converted into heat by friction, and part (all?) of that heat disappears into space as infrared radiation.
Heat radiation carries energy but no angular momentum, so energy can but angular momentum cannot disappear into space that way. The angular momentum that disappears from the spinning of the Earth can only go into the spin of the Moon or to the orbital motion of the Earth and Moon.
Tidal forces have caused the spin period and orbital period of the Moon to be equal (the Moon always shows us the same side), so they can keep them equal, too. The orbital period follows from the distance between the Earth and the Moon, so then there are only two free parameters left: the spin period of the Earth and the distance between the Earth and the Moon.
If the spin period of the Earth increases, then its angular momentum decreases, which means that the orbital angular momentum of the Moon (which is far greater than the spin angular momentum of the Moon) must increase, which means that the distance of the Moon must increase.
Fig. 1: Periods in the Earth-Moon System
Figure 1 shows which spin period T of the Earth and orbital period P (along the vertical axis) of the Earth and Moon belong to each distance r (along the horizontal axis) between the Earth and the Moon. The solid line shows the sidereal spin period of the Earth, and the dotted line the sidereal orbital period of the Earth and the Moon (which is also equal to the sidereal spin period of the Moon). The little squares show the current situation. The triangles show the points at which the orbital period is equal to the spin period of the Earth. These are for r = 13938 km (period equal to 4 hours and 50 minutes) and r = 554523 km (period equal to 47 days 7 hours).
The spin period T of the Earth is increasing, because the spinning of the Earth is slowing down due to the tidal forces. The figure shows that this is only possible if the distance r between the Earth and the Moon increases.
Fig. 2: Energy in the Earth-Moon System
Figure 2 shows which total energy E is in the Earth-Moon system if the Earth and Moon are at distance r from each other, if the Moon shows always the same side to the Earth, and if in addition the spin period of the Earth is as shown in figure 1 for that distance. The solid line goes with the scale on the left-hand side, and the dotted line with the scale on the right-hand side, which has been expanded by a factor of 10 compared to the left-hand scale. The squares show the current situation. The triangles show the points at which the orbital period is equal to the spin period of the Earth, just like in figure 1.
It is very difficult to convert heat or other internal kinds of energy into kinetic energy or into potential energy, so the total amount E of kinetic and potential energy in the Earth-Moon system can in practice only decrease. We saw before that the decelerating spin rate of the Earth goes with an increasing distance between the Earth and the Moon, and we see here that declining total energy goes with that, too, and that fits. The potential energy increases (because the Moon gets further from the Earth), but the total kinetic energy in the rotation and orbital motion of the Earth and in the rotation and orbital motion of the Moon decreases more, so the sum of kinetic and potential energy still decreases as expected.
2. Evolution

Orbits of moons and planets tend to be influenced by the following effects:
  • <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-TOP: 6pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; COLOR: black; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3">The tidal distortion of the planet by the moon lags behind the direction to the moon and causes a torque that makes the orbital period of the moon and the spin period of the planet more equal. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-TOP: 6pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; COLOR: black; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3">Because angular momentum is conserved, the change in angular momentum in the planet's spin is reflected in an opposite change in angular momentum in the orbit or in the moon's spin. If the spin period is shorter than the orbital period (as it usually is), and if the moon rotates synchronously with its orbit (as is usually the case) then the planet's spin is slowed down by the moon's tides, and the moon's orbit gets wider. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-TOP: 6pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; COLOR: black; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3">Because the tidal effects drop off strongly with distance, they are strongest when the moon is closest to the planet and affect the moon's apoapse more than its periapse, leading to an increase in eccentricity. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-TOP: 6pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; COLOR: black; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3">If the change in the planet's spin rate is slow enough, then the planet's spin axis moves toward a situation in which it is perpendicular to the plane of its orbit around the Sun. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-TOP: 6pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; COLOR: black; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3">Even when a moon is locked in synchronous rotation with its orbit, it may experience tidal effects. If the orbit is not perfectly circular, then the moon's distance to the planet varies with time, leading to slight flexing of the moon and energy loss. This tends to make the orbit more circular.
  • In addition, a moon travels a non-circular orbit with varying speed, leading to librations (apparent rocking to and fro as seen from the planet), which generate flexing and energy loss. This, too, tends to make the orbit more circular.
These descriptions in terms of planets and moons also hold between the Sun and the planets.
In the Earth-Moon system, if the current rate at which the Earth's rotation period increases (about 20 seconds per million years) were to stay the same until the Earth's rotation period and the length of the month synchronized, then it would take (46 days divided by 20 seconds times a million years equals) about 200 thousand million years to reach synchronization, which is about 15 times longer than the current estimate for the age of the Universe.
Because the Moon is slowly moving away from the Earth its tidal force on the Earth (and therefore also the deceleration of the Earth's rotation) decreases with time, and I expect the deceleration to also become smaller when the rotation period and orbital period are more closely matched. In addition, the efficiency of tidal forces in slowing down the rotation of the Earth is currently much greater than usual (see section 4). It will probably take much longer than 200 thousand million years before the day and the month are synchronized.
3. Model Results

Fig. 3: Evolution of the Distance of the Moon
I have constructed a simple model for the greatest contribution to the tides on the Earth. The evolution of the lunar orbit, day, and month according to that model is illustrated by the following series of figures. Figure 3 shows the distance r of the Moon (in units of 1 Mm = 1000 km = 621 mi) for time t in units of millions of years since today. Today's situation is shown by the small square. The solid line fits with the current recession speed of the Moon (model A, 3.7 cm per million years today), and the dashed line goes with a reduced recession speed (model B, 1.1 cm per million years today).
Fig. 4: Evolution of the Length of the Sidereal Day
Figure 4 shows how the length t (measured in hours of today) of the day depends on the time t. The solid line shown the length of the sidereal day for model A, the dashed line the sidereal day for model B, and the dotted lines the corresponding lengths of the synodical day (solar day). Today's situation is again shown by small squares.
Fig. 5: Evolution of the Length of the Sidereal Month
Figure 5 shows how the length P of the month depends on the time t. The solid line shown the length of the sidereal month for model A, the short-dashed line shows the sidereal month for model B, and the dotted lines show the length of the corresponding synodical months (from Full Moon to Full Moon), all of them measured in units of 1 solar day of today (86400 seconds). The long-dashed lines show the length of the synodical months measured in units of the solar days of that time. Today's situation is again shown by small squares. The solar day increases in length relatively faster than the length of the synodical month does, so the number of solar days in a synodical month decreases in the future, even though the length of the synodical month measured in a fixed unit of time decreases in the future.
4. The past

Geological research has shown that some lunar rocks are about 4000 million years old, and no indications have been found that the Moon has had any traumatic experiences (such as a close encounter with the Earth) during the last 3000 million years or so. However, according to model A (Figure 3), the Moon was practically touching the Earth about 1400 million years ago. These things don't fit, because according to geology the Moon hasn't been close to the Earth during the last 3000 million years.
The explanation for this problem is that the tides are currently unusually efficient at slowing down the spinning of the Earth, because at the moment the spin period of the Earth is quite close to the main sloshing period of the Earth's oceans. Far into the past and far into the future the tides are less efficient at slowing down the Earth. In model B the tides are about 0.3 times as efficient as in model A, and then the Moon can remain sufficiently far from the Earth even when they were formed (estimated at about 5000 million years ago).
5. The Near Future

The figures show that, according to the model, during the coming 6000 million years, the Moon will recede to about 470 thousand kilometers from the Earth (about 90 thousand kilometers more than today), the day will lengthen to about 47 hours, and the month will grow to about 36 days sidereal and 40 days synodical. The synodical month (currently about 29.5 days long) will be exactly 30 current days long in about 110 million years, and will have a length of exactly 29 solar days of the time in about 240 million years.
Because the tides are currently temporarily unusually efficient at slowing down the rotation of the Earth, the changes in the lengths of the day and the month will probably go a lot slower than model A suggest. Model B could be a better fit in the long term, and it says that the Moon will get to only 425 thousand km during the next 6000 million years, and the day gets only up to 32 hours long, and the month up to 32 days sidereal and 35 days synodical. According to model B, the synodical month will be exactly 30 current days long in about 386 million years, and exactly 29 future solar days long in about 840 million years. Clearly, the Earth's rotation will not synchronize with the Moon's orbital period before the Sun turns into a red giant (which is estimated to be in about 5 thousand million years).
6. The Very Distant Future

Fig. 6: Evolution of the Month in the Far Distant Future
If the Sun never becomes a red giant, and the Earth and Moon can continue plying their orbit around the Sun forever like they do today, then we can extend models A and B far beyond 6000 million years. Figure 6 shows the number of solar days P in a synodical month (from Full Moon to Full Moon) displayed against time t measured in millions of years since today, for models A (solid line) and B (dashed line). The solar day and synodical month get ever closer together (P decreases towards the value 1), but only after about 84 thousand million years (according to model A) or 295 thousand million years (model B) does the synodical month decrease to below 2 solar days.
The dotted lines in Figure 6 belong to approximations
(Eq. 1) PA ≈ 85 − 7.5 ln(t)
(Eq. 2) PB ≈ 94.4 − 7.5 ln(t)
if t is measured in millions of years after today, and PA and PB are measured in solar days of the future.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:13 PM
Jim Martin Jim Martin is offline
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West Matagorda is listed along with Port Oconner.

http://www.protides.com/texas/2156/

East is typcally pretty close behind....
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:38 PM
trout250 trout250 is offline
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Fish east bay

Don't know if i qualify to be an old salt but have been fishin e mat since early 70 the tides there are really influenced by the wind, the mag gulf coast fisherman did have a scedule for caney creek at the icw, and you could figure from there, if you are in sargent pick up 1 of the little blue papers it has a tide chart in it, i have the 1 from end of may thru june 7, sun the tide was supposed tobe high at 6;22 am a 1.6 and low at 9:48 pm going to a 0,4 compare this to freeport and should give you some kind of idea, have to add about 1 1/2 hrs to these times for for creek , and bay.
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:15 AM
JREN JREN is offline
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Thanks to Jim Martin and Trout 250 for the info. it was a big help... JREN
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:21 AM
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East Matty

Been in East and West since we moved here from Corpus in the early 80's. Trout250 has a pretty good handle on East Bay. The wind really drives the water. I disagree with Jim. I've found little correlation between the published tides at Pass Cavallo and East.
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