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Dial up or hold over?

3K views 17 replies 12 participants last post by  Jfreeman 
#1 ·
I am wanting to get more comfortable at shooting at longer distances. I have what I think can be considered a long range gun in a 7MM STW and would like to shoot out to farther distances. I have been shooting the 200 and 300 yard range at American Shooting Center in Houston for the past year. I recently started dialing up and down and left and right with my scope and have verified that the scope can return consitantly back to zero. It also has a mill dot reticle as well.

Here is my plan. I have the gun zeroed at two hundred yards and will verify my mill dots on the three hundred and four hundred yard range. After I settle on my finale hunting load, I will confirm my max PBR for a 6" kill zone using the 200 yard zero and can hold dead on with main cross hair then use mil dot for three hundred or so. I plan to dial up for longer than 300 hundred yard shots.

Is there any one in the Houston area with experience at dialing a scope for long range distance shooting that would consider some range time after deer season, that could observe what I am doing and make constructive pointers to help minimize my learning curve? I am willing to pay for your range time to intice someone to help. I think there are some that I hunt with that would be interested in some experienced help on this subject as well. I just do not want to waist time learning to do something wrong and then have to relearn the right way.
 
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#2 ·
I think shooting at long ranges is fun. The only downfall for me is judging a solid buck out too far. Now a pig, doe, or varmint.........:) I use a 6.5 x 20 Zeiss with target knobs. I think the major issue for me is compensating for windage when there is substantial wind. It also depends if you're shooting on flat ground. That can also affect elevation adjustments. Good luck on a fun sport!

Brice
 
#3 ·
I have two Burris scopes with the B-Plex reticles. They work very well and I am confident to 500 yards. When I tested my guns, I also put a label on my ammo box (for the respective gun) with an illustration of the reticle and the POI for each ballistic mark.

The thing to remember about shooting long distances - is to know the distance. I carry a range finder with me in my back pack. When I get to a hunting area, I'll range different landmarks (trees, cactus...whatever) so that I can react quickly in the event a shooter steps out at 425 yards. Good luck with whatever you decide to do...
 
#4 ·
El Cazador said:
The thing to remember about shooting long distances - is to know the distance. I carry a range finder with me in my back pack. When I get to a hunting area, I'll range different landmarks (trees, cactus...whatever) so that I can react quickly in the event a shooter steps out at 425 yards. Good luck with whatever you decide to do...
Exactly... and know your rifle's ballistics also. If you know both of these you don't need to mess with your scopes settings. In a hunting situation, you usually don't have the time to mess with that anyways. If you know the yardage, windage and have the right rifle for making long distance shots, 400-500 yards is possible. I wouldn't make a shot like that routinely but I know I can if I need to. ASC used to have a 500 yard range.. did they close it? You had to bring your own target holder but it was possible to practice there.
 
#5 ·
Haute Pursuit said:
Exactly... and know your rifle's ballistics also. If you know both of these you don't need to mess with your scopes settings. In a hunting situation, you usually don't have the time to mess with that anyways. If you know the yardage, windage and have the right rifle for making long distance shots, 400-500 yards is possible. I wouldn't make a shot like that routinely but I know I can if I need to. .
Right, good post Haute. A good friend of mine has a STW custom made by a guy near Austin. I weighs like 11lbs.! He has a Leupold 6-24x on it. It is an unbelieveable weapon. Like Haute said, know your round, then it will be easier. with that gun you should be able to shoot to 500yds without any touching of your scope or much thinking about it for that matter (unless there is some high cross winds). That round is such a flat shooting round it makes it easy to shoot farther than you ever thought you could, effectively and responsibly,IMO.

Just wear ear protection....if yoiu want to hear when you are older. That gun is an absolute cannon, seriouly, take them in the stand with you, or you will pay the price.
 
#6 ·
It is quite loud. I was shooting two weeks ago with a friend that saw it for the first time, the first round that I touched off, he was in awe of the muzzle blast. ASC has 100, 200, 300, 400 and 600 yard rifle ranges. You have to qualify on the 300 to shoot the 400 and 600 yrad ranges. I don't know about being able to shoot to 500 without dialing up, but will check out ballistics once I settle on a finale load. It is a flat shooting gun and for the south Texas hogs and coyotes I plan on stretching my shooting capabilities.

Well maybe after deer season I can get a dialer upper to meet out there for some tutoring.

I don't have a leese this year but have invites to three hunts to feel doe tags and cull bucks, plus all the hogs that get within range.
 
#7 ·
i would say, why are you wanting to shoot that distance? i have hunted west texas and south texas almost my entire life nd have never taken a shot over 200 in texas. now if you are planning on going on an antelope or elk or mulley hunt where the shots can vary a lot then sure learning to shoot at distance is great. other wise it is a waste in 99% of all situations in texas.

now if you just want to learn then great. i personally dont like dialing the scope i like to 0 it in and leave it and learn how to hold over (or under as the case may be). i have shot from many different distances, and angles from 400+ to 20 yds and from up hill down hill, accross, leaning on a tree prone supported and free hand standing. i suggest learning how to shoot free hand at distance rather then sitting at a bench and shooting 500 yds. as an example: about 6 yrs ago i took an antelope up in wyoming, last morning of the hunt so i settled for a mid size buck (about 71" sci). the closest i could get was about 300 yds (as said before range finders rule) i shot and hit him with my 30.06, he ran so i stood up and shot, miss, so i took a step and settled down, shot and hit, he fell. i took a range on him to get a good idea were he was (those open plains can be decieving) he fell at 427 yds. i would say he was around 400 yds taken with my 30.06 180 grain balistic silver tips. both shots where with-in 6" of each other. i had to lead him and hold over but there would be no maner of practice at any range that would prepair anyone for a shot like that (best shot i ever made so i am proud)

on the other hand i have taken many deer all over texas less then 100 yds where i have had to hold under. i site in at 200 yds which on my rifle (with 150 grain scirocco bonded) is about 2.5" over at 100 yds.

bottle line if you NEED to site that far out go for it but if your texas hunting doesnt call for it, then why do it? if you enjoy the long range shooting then great have fun.

as some of you have read i took and elk with the same rifle just a couple weeks ago at 448 yds 3 shots all 3 hit and i was laying on a downward slope, with a bipod on the rifle shooting up hill (man that was not comfortable). this also go for all those "i would never take anything smaller then a 300" guys (i ran into one of those guys at gandermountain yesterday, mr "your nuts you cant kill an elk with anything less then a 300")
 
#8 ·
We shoot a 1450 meter range here in Lufkin. I prefer to use the elevation controls on the scope. Past 600 yards I would recomend a 30mm Mark 4 Leupold scope with a 5 MOA or a 10 MOA base to get the extra clicks. I go to the 1000 meter metal target not much more. I used to be big in it but slowing down now.
 
#9 ·
Ranger john I am wanting to shoot this distance to be able to do it with confidence. I have tried holding over and to me it is just to impresice. I am glad it works for you. I have a 30mm scope with mildot and as stated earlier i am good to 300 yards with them and that works for most of the places that I hunt.

There are times down in South Texas that I could shoot hogs and yotes way on out there. I just would like to learn the proper way of shooting long range and not to develope bad habits in my learning process.

I would like to know that I could shoot targets live or paper to out past 600 yards and do it with confidence. I just don't think I could do that with a hold over technique.
 
#10 ·
I agree, the Mark 4 Leupold is a good scope. With the turret knobs, its easy to adjust.

I prefer to adjust my elevation. Making a good shot out to 300 yards or more is tough enough...I don't like to have to guess on the holdover. If you have turret (or I guess target knobs are the same thing), all you have to do is spin the dial and you're there. If you have a scope where you have to use a coin to ajust the windage and elevation...well you need to get a scope with the turret knobs. I actually sighted my rifle in for 100 yards, then wrote all my dope out to 700 yards down and taped it to the inside of my flip open scope cover. That way all its handy. I just look up at my scope cover, rotate the elevation to the correct MOA, then its point of aim, point of impact.

Although mil dots can be used for holdover, they're really designed to be used for judging distance. Doing mil holdovers isn't as easy as it sounds. You can shoot around until you guess correctly...for each yard line, but there's actually a formula you can use involving your bullet drop, moa, and number of mils. Trying to do a mil holdover for wind is a guessing game...especially if you only have one shot.

I shoot for a living, if you want more info, PM me and I'll be happy to help.
 
#11 ·
stretch,
i understand and more power to you for wanting to learn. in most cases in the state of texas it is not needed but if you want to learn thats awesome.

if you have a scope made for adjusting in this manor great if not hold over is the best bet anyway. i do not like target shooting as you get to used to "controled" situations and if you are in the field very little is "controled" in a lot of cases if that pig or yote is out at say 500 yds walking you will in most instances not have the time to adjust anything. by the time you get a range on him "accurately" then adjust the sites then get on him and squeeze he is gone, or behind a bush or what ever.

if it works for you great!!!!! i just dont like it. i like to get a rough range on things in the field when i am getting settled in also (this iwll help some)

best thing to know is this : know the rifle and its capabilities, know your ammo, and know your suroundings. there are so many variables involved in a "live" long distance shoot i personally dont thing dialing anything is realistic. but once again thats just me.
 
#12 ·
The hold over is not precise enough for me. I have 6.5-20 Zeiss with turret knobs and a data card on the stock with "clicks" all the way out to 1000 yards at 25 yard incriments for both elevation and windage. I range, refer to the data card, dial it in, and shoot. Get comfortable with your equipment, get the process down, and pratice, pratice, practice.

If you ever see a guy belly down on his shooting mat at the ASC 600 yard range shooting a brown camo 308 with brown barrel and action, thats me. Feel free to say hi.

You'll learn very quickly that distance is not the problem, its the wind......
 
#13 ·
One very simple thing you could do which would minimize either dial up or hold over is to sight in 3" high at 100 yards. That should push your dead on with that gun out to 250-300 yds. This will make your dial up/hold over that much less at the longer distances, and another 1/2" high at 100 yards certainly isn't going to make you miss anything.

I sight all of my big game rifles in for 3" high at 100 yds. I can therefore shoot dead on out to 300 yds, hold dead center, and be within 3" either way- well within kill zones on heart lung shots, which is all I take also.

THE "LIKE TO KEEP IT SIMPLE" JAMMER
 
#14 ·
THE JAMMER said:
One very simple thing you could do which would minimize either dial up or hold over is to sight in 3" high at 100 yards. That should push your dead on with that gun out to 250-300 yds. This will make your dial up/hold over that much less at the longer distances, and another 1/2" high at 100 yards certainly isn't going to make you miss anything.

I sight all of my big game rifles in for 3" high at 100 yds. I can therefore shoot dead on out to 300 yds, hold dead center, and be within 3" either way- well within kill zones on heart lung shots, which is all I take also.

THE "LIKE TO KEEP IT SIMPLE" JAMMER
This is the same way I have my .257 Wby sighted in...

+2.4" @100 yards, +3.1" @200, 0.0 @ 300. -7.1" @400,
-21" @500
 
#17 ·
Anybody know anything about this scope? It has yardage turrets that adjust to 1,000 yds and some sort of patent pending windage compensation technology. I have no personal experience with it. Oh, it also has the technology of a hefty price tag.
I watched this show yesterday and they were doing some pretty impressive long range hunting with this setup. 760 some-odd yard shot and dropped a bull elk.
http://www.thebestofthewest.net/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43
 
#18 ·
I shoot a custom 7stw topped with a 5.5-22x56 nightforce scope. These scopes are very popular in the 1000yd benchrest matches. I have a range finding reticle so I have never used the adjustments in the field. I've shot mine on paper to 500yds at ASC.

I would use the mil dots at long ranges to see where your bullet hits. Shoot it on paper at long distances and you'll know exactly where it hits at a certain distance. It's good practice also, and you will see how much effect the wind has on your bullet at long ranges.
 
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